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Post 31 Oct 2014, 9:24 am

What are plans for the 2015 circuit? I am loving the season long aspect of the races. Perhaps we can expand to 7-10 races.
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Post 31 Oct 2014, 11:06 am

Interesting...

Pros
One bad race won't sink your chances for a title.
A truer test of who the best driver / car builder is over multiple track styles.

Cons
A minimum of 2+ years for the season (assuming races run consecutively).

If we were a well-established league, this would be a great idea. The 2 year season is less desirable, however, if we have turnover, making it harder for new drivers to jump in and compete. That could be a deterrent to attracting potential players. My preference would be to create a 2nd league (with a 2nd RM - I can't do concurrent), build up a good stable of drivers, and turn this into a vibrant home for the hobby. Then, once we have a dozen drivers who we know are in it for the long haul, go big.

I have been thinking about the tracks for next season. I'd like to do a North American series or an Asian series. Here are some tracks in Doug's collection:

North America
Long Beach: http://lucidphoenix.com/sc/tracks/longbeach.asp
Watkins Glen: http://lucidphoenix.com/sc/tracks/watkinsglen.asp
Circuit of the Americas: http://lucidphoenix.com/sc/tracks/cota.pdf
Gilles-Villeneuve: http://lucidphoenix.com/sc/tracks/Montreal.pdf
Autodromo Hermanos Rodriguez: http://lucidphoenix.com/sc/tracks/ricardorodriquez.asp

Asia
Suzuka: http://lucidphoenix.com/sc/tracks/Suzuka.pdf
Marina Bay: http://lucidphoenix.com/sc/tracks/Singapore.pdf
New Delhi: http://lucidphoenix.com/sc/tracks/newDheli.pdf
Sepang: http://lucidphoenix.com/sc/tracks/Sepang.pdf
Shanghai: http://lucidphoenix.com/sc/tracks/Shanghai.pdf
Yeongam: http://lucidphoenix.com/sc/tracks/Yeongam.pdf
Instanbul: http://lucidphoenix.com/sc/tracks/Istanbul.pdf
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Post 02 Nov 2014, 11:30 am

Some more North American track files posted at BGG.

Barber Motorsports Park (Alabama): Barber
Philadelphia (hypothetical, I believe): Philly
Mid-Ohio: Mid-Ohio

There's a couple more there in a format I can't access (Adobe Illustrator) so if anybody has the ability to turn them into PDF's, it would be appreciated.
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Post 04 Nov 2014, 12:53 pm

I combined the four quadrants of the Detroit city circuit from an All-Star Replay magazine pdf with the following result:

It looks like a very tricky, low-speed track but I don't think it would work very well for a dozen cars. My god, what a mess that would be! Maybe if someone wants to run a race with half a dozen cars...
DetroitGP1.gif
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Post 05 Nov 2014, 4:28 pm

I was thinking if we have enough for 2 leagues, we could use the British soccer model, and have the top 6 in the lower league advance, and the lower 6 in the upper league get relegated. It could be an added excitement factor.
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Post 05 Nov 2014, 7:39 pm

That's a fantastic idea, Brad. Spa is going to probably last until about May, giving us until then to put together a 2nd league. I would suggest a one-off race to be run concurrently with Spa. That would give a new RM a chance to get his feet wet and some new drivers an opportunity to to do the same. Kal may be ready to run a race by January but if not, we'll need someone to step up.
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Post 19 Nov 2014, 7:00 pm

I know season 2 is still a ways off (approx. May) but if you have thoughts about rules change or additions, lets talk about them here.

I'm interested in adding pit stops but I'm unsure of the best way to do it. Doug's rules seem overly complicated. They might be simpler in practice than the way they're written but I can't make heads or tails of them. I understand some of you are in Tony LaMorte's league and I'd love to get your feedback on his system.

p.s. to Brad: I'm hi-jacking this thread. Note the name change.
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Post 19 Nov 2014, 9:33 pm

SLOTerp wrote:p.s. to Brad: I'm hi-jacking this thread. Note the name change.


I am jiggy with that
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Post 10 Jan 2015, 10:01 am

It appears that we will have enough drivers to run a two-league system. There are 11 in Spa and 9 new drivers in Montreal (Randy, John, & Will are racing in both). I'm feeling good about having two full leagues of 12 drivers come May.

League Rules

League competition to start when Spa & Montreal are completed.
The current field in the Grand Prix will be in the 'Senior Circuit'.
The current field in Montreal will be in the 'Junior Circuit'
The Senior Circuit will need at least one more driver. The winner at Montreal will move to the Senior Circuit.
A Grand Prix will consist of three races, expected to take about one year to complete.
Both circuits will run the same races.
Upon completion of the Grand Prix (3 races), the bottom half of the senior circuit will be demoted while the top half of the junior circuit will be promoted.
Drivers cannot jump circuits while a Grand Prix is being run.

Things to do before May

Select three tracks for the next Grand Prix.
Find an RM for the junior circuit. If none is found, I can run both circuits until one is found.*
Decide on rules changes. For example, do we wish to use pit rules?

* If anyone wishes to train up for RM'ing, I would be happy to assist. A one-off race can be run with fewer laps and fewer drivers.
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Post 16 Jan 2015, 6:15 am

An issue was brought up regarding car builds: Is 100 mph start speed too cheap or even too fast, period? Furthermore, has anyone, ever, in the history of time, paid two points for 120?

Your thoughts?

Here are some alternatives

20/40/60/80

20/40/60/100

In the first, 100 is not even an option. Problem is, I doubt anyone would ever pay 2 for 80 mph. The second choice makes 100 possible with a distinct two space advantage. It is at a high cost but some may opt for it.
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Post 16 Jan 2015, 8:31 am

SLOTerp wrote:Select three tracks for the next Grand Prix.


I love the idea of using some of the old Avalon Hill tracks, mostly because I haven't run most of them. In fact, I'm trying to start a local league just so I can try running a bunch of those.

However, I think you're right about the track not accomodating 12 racers. Most of those tracks were built for 6 players, not 12. That's the nice thing about Doug's tracks, and why we'll probably need to keep using them. Most of them were designed for 10-12 racers.

SLOTerp wrote:Decide on rules changes. For example, do we wish to use pit rules?


I've played with and without pit rules. They can be fun, but it will definitely affect how the build table is set up. I personally don't care either way.

SLOTerp wrote:...has anyone, ever, in the history of time, paid two points for 120?


Yes. I've seen it happen, and I've considered it strongly myself. It's not something you would often do, but there's a time and place for it.

SLOTerp wrote:Is 100 mph start speed too cheap or even too fast, period?


The only thing I want to point out as we start this discussion is this: The current build table was not arrived at overnight. It has been a process that's been underway for over 10 years now, and involved a lot of discussion between several of us. Looking at the table from 10 years ago, things are drastically different from what they are now.

So just some food for thought. We've modified that table over and over again to get to this point. We've had successes and failures, and many times have we introduced unintended consequences as we went, which we've had to correct for. Any change we make could have huge implications.

SLOTerp wrote:Here are some alternatives

20/40/60/80

20/40/60/100

In the first, 100 is not even an option. Problem is, I doubt anyone would ever pay 2 for 80 mph. The second choice makes 100 possible with a distinct two space advantage. It is at a high cost but some may opt for it.


The potential consequences of either of these changes would likely be to reduce the ability to build a race-from-the-front car like what Fabio enjoys racing. Here I'm talking about the pretty standard 40/40/140/100/24/9 car. This is a fun car to race as long as you can suffer through it's limitations. The thing about the car though is that it has to get out in front right away to compensate for the more limited engine. Then it uses its wear to stay there, and hope you can't catch it.

In the first option, that car can't be built. In the second, you'd have to give up skill to still build it. But the skill is critical for that car to get pole on the build, so you're still effectively killing the car.

I think what will happen here is that we'll see car designs become a little more standardized. It may not happen immediately, but people will realize that 60/60 acc/dec is your best expenditure of points, given the fact that everyone pretty much starts at the same speed. I mean, who would waste a build point when they can get the same effect by pushing with skill? If you get 1 3-chip and 3 1's with a build point, you can spend 2 skill on the push roll and wind up significantly richer in resources.

Start speed build points have to mean something. Your expenditure has got to get you an advantage, or your ignoring it has to cost you something.

------------

All that said, I'm happy racing no matter what we do. I just think that the changes proposed would eventually lead to start speed not really being a thing you consider when designing. And if that's the case, why not remove it altogether?
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Post 16 Jan 2015, 9:02 am

i vote for new start chats(actually the old chart, with no ss, acc is start ss)
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Post 16 Jan 2015, 9:16 am

old pit rule. stop at any pit space(have to get down to 0 mph) get back up to half of original wear, wear has to have been used to get back,so you can never have more wear than started with. not sure if it really added to game
old tracks have been used with 12 players,forget det track,horrible( actually used at avaloncon i year between rob cunninham and doug s. gms tour. that was rough year for sct,but doug s. saved it next year
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Post 16 Jan 2015, 9:56 am

here is build chart that was in use for tournament play before current build chart. no start speed acc is start speed. acc 20,40,60(0,1,2) dec 20,40 ,60(0,1,2) top speed 120,140,160,180,200(franklin the rocket always has ts of 200)(-1,0,1,2,3) wear 4,5,6,7,8 (-1,0,1,2,3) everyone starts with same amount of skill that is up to gm. i used one -3 and 6 -1
under these builds, pack did not spread out so fast. the bidding for start grid was much more lively. a person could still win from front, but it also seemed cars could "come out of clouds " and win (with out crashes assisting)
under current chart,unless you have 100 ss there is no reason to bid for 1st or second row,so guys with 100 ss are only ones bidding on pole,so they get pole much cheaper than what should be paid.
there was still break aways,but it seemed like a lot more battling, now if you start slow after a few turns you could be back 15+ spaces
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Post 16 Jan 2015, 11:46 am

like to hear from any grognards that played under both build charts