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What is an appropriate penalty for an NPR?

The penalties are appropriate as is.
11
58%
The penalties should be reduced.
8
42%
 
Total votes : 19
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Indy Car Driver (Pro IV)
 
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Joined: 08 Apr 2002, 9:45 am

Post 22 Nov 2019, 12:01 pm

Folks,

Your opinion is requested on the NPR penalty rules. If you don't know what an NPR is... that's probably a good thing... it stands for 'No Plot Received'.

Some quick background:

From league inception until the beginning of this season (6th), the NPR plots (how we move NPR cars) were punitive. They were, however, not universally so as the level of 'punishment' was significantly dependent on the track & context. Furthermore, as the plots were not very realistic and thus not predictable, they could, and did, screw up drivers behind them.

Through much deep thought, testing, and with the aid of a few other RM's and drivers, the NPR plots were modified to make them more realistic and thus more predictable. They have proven (so far) to work really well and are not, generally speaking, detrimental to the violator. The RM's wished to maintain the deterrent so we introduced the wear penalties:

1st violation = 1 wear
2nd violation = 2 wear
3rd violation = 2 wear
4th violation = DQ
If there is no wear to pay the penalty, the car spins (1 wear) and may suffer damage (2 wear).

A question of appropriateness has arisen. Are the penalties too harsh? This is essentially a question of margin - we are NOT doing away with penalties nor are we increasing them. Additionally, wear resources will continue to be the coin of the punitive realm.

If you believe the penalties should be brought down, please post on what you think might be appropriate. I also encourage everyone to post their thoughts on the topic, both from a player and/or RM perspective. If there is enough support to change them, a reduction will be considered.

I've also allowed you to change your answer if anyone's arguments cause you to change your mind.
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Administrator
 
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Post 22 Nov 2019, 12:28 pm

If someone does not like the time, don't do the crime.

It is simple to send in orders. 5 minutes every other day?!?! I have NMR'd a couple of times and am always willing to accept the responsibility of my errors.

As a GM and a player, it is frustrating.

As a father of a frequent offender, it makes me say GRRR!!!
Truck Series Driver (Pro II)
 
Posts: 8
Joined: 22 Sep 2016, 7:54 am

Post 22 Nov 2019, 2:10 pm

The goal is to have fun (without stressing out the Race Marshals), and perfection is something desired but hey, very few of us are retired and can totally focus on games all the time. The first violation, at least, could be reduced and still leave a strong deterrent in place.
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Dignitary
 
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Joined: 15 Sep 2001, 10:27 am

Post 22 Nov 2019, 2:17 pm

I think the penalties are on the harsh side and would benefit from being tweaked downwards. It's just a game and real life just gets in the way sometimes, give people a small amount of room.
Amateur
 
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Joined: 07 Jan 2019, 8:42 am

Post 22 Nov 2019, 2:28 pm

I would agree they are a little harsh. I would be ok with a public shaming on 1st offense. Or if a penalty is really needed, maybe 1s.

1st violation = Comment on Race Write-up
2nd violation = 1 wear
3rd violation = 2 wear
4th violation = DQ
If there is no wear to pay the penalty, the car spins (1 wear) and may suffer damage (2 wear).

Having said that, I'm also ok if they don't change.
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Truck Series Driver (Pro II)
 
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Joined: 25 Apr 2017, 6:01 pm

Post 22 Nov 2019, 2:51 pm

I think it was a great idea. 1 wear for a first infraction isn't going to drastically kill someone's race, and like you mentioned, it doesn't mess up those behind.

For subsequent infractions... well, they are deserved. 3 total wear for 2 misses, 5 total wear for 3 misses. That many wear starts to really encroach on your ability to do well in the race. But if the person is getting 2 or 3 NPR, well.. that's not fair to the rest of the field that puts in their plots on time.

Besides, I know of another game that's moderated on this forum where an NPR has a much more serious consequence!
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Truck Series Driver (Pro II)
 
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Joined: 18 May 2016, 7:27 pm

Post 22 Nov 2019, 3:01 pm

I believe there is room for something like this (below) . . . with the first violation being either a public warning or maybe 1S.

I would offer than even the loss of 1W can be game breaking . . . particularly if you are running at the front and need to stay on a particular line. The loss of 2W is almost always crippling to one's chances of landing on the podium. So something like the system below strikes a reasonable balance between not being overly punitive, but putting teeth into incentivizing diligence in sending in your plots.

- Tim

srpray wrote:I would agree they are a little harsh. I would be ok with a public shaming on 1st offense. Or if a penalty is really needed, maybe 1s.

1st violation = Comment on Race Write-up
2nd violation = 1 wear
3rd violation = 2 wear
4th violation = DQ
If there is no wear to pay the penalty, the car spins (1 wear) and may suffer damage (2 wear).

Having said that, I'm also ok if they don't change.
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Post 22 Nov 2019, 4:02 pm

I think a loss of 1W can have a dramatic affect on your race. If someone NPRs twice or three times then yes, a penalty is justified. But losing a wear can easily be enough to cost you the chance of a good finish, especially depending on the timing of the incident.

NPRs are bad and we want to avoid them but I think there is room to show some leniency for the first offence and apply increasing levels of punishment to repeat offenders.
Truck Series Driver (Pro II)
 
Posts: 39
Joined: 09 Sep 2014, 4:41 pm

Post 22 Nov 2019, 5:31 pm

I like the idea of the first offense being a comment and a wake up call. I have occasionally missed submitting a move, and the NPR would in either case make me a bit more careful for the rest of the race. The following seems to serve the purpose of making NPRs undesired, but does seem to be a bit more fair for a slip.

srpray wrote:I would agree they are a little harsh. I would be ok with a public shaming on 1st offense. Or if a penalty is really needed, maybe 1s.

1st violation = Comment on Race Write-up
2nd violation = 1 wear
3rd violation = 2 wear
4th violation = DQ
If there is no wear to pay the penalty, the car spins (1 wear) and may suffer damage (2 wear).

Having said that, I'm also ok if they don't change.
Truck Series Driver (Pro II)
 
Posts: 2
Joined: 19 Jan 2016, 12:19 am

Post 22 Nov 2019, 6:13 pm

I agree totally with spray's suggestions for penalties.

srpray wrote:
I would agree they are a little harsh. I would be ok with a public shaming on 1st offense. Or if a penalty is really needed, maybe 1s.

1st violation = Comment on Race Write-up
2nd violation = 1 wear
3rd violation = 2 wear
4th violation = DQ
If there is no wear to pay the penalty, the car spins (1 wear) and may suffer damage (2 wear).
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Jr. Amateur
 
Posts: 2
Joined: 28 Sep 2018, 8:24 am

Post 23 Nov 2019, 8:18 am

As a twice violator in the current race, I still support the rule as it sits. I would also be comfortable with the reduction described by srpray.

Yes, we are here to have fun. But, the GM still has a lot of work to do for our collective fun. We we put more on him it is a legitimate imposition and we should avoid it.

srpray wrote:I would agree they are a little harsh. I would be ok with a public shaming on 1st offense. Or if a penalty is really needed, maybe 1s.

1st violation = Comment on Race Write-up
2nd violation = 1 wear
3rd violation = 2 wear
4th violation = DQ
If there is no wear to pay the penalty, the car spins (1 wear) and may suffer damage (2 wear).

Having said that, I'm also ok if they don't change.
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Rally Racer (Pro III)
 
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Joined: 13 Jan 2015, 9:32 am

Post 23 Nov 2019, 3:31 pm

There has to be a penalty on 1st n.p.r. There have been questionable n.p.r. 's in the past,that helped other driver's or had the appearance of helping another driver. The penalty removes any doubt.
Truck Series Driver (Pro II)
 
Posts: 2
Joined: 16 Jan 2015, 10:09 am

Post 01 Dec 2019, 4:59 pm

You should get one chance to space out and miss a move, although the gms are pretty good about reminders.
I am ok with the new listed penalties except that the first time should be zero.
Even if you are traveling, and don't have internet access for a couple days, you still could send in a couple of moves in advance. it takes a bit of thinking ahead but it can be done.
It is not fair to the gm or the rest of the field to miss more than one.
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Post 08 Dec 2019, 11:35 pm

srpray wrote:I would agree they are a little harsh. I would be ok with a public shaming on 1st offense. Or if a penalty is really needed, maybe 1s.

1st violation = Comment on Race Write-up
2nd violation = 1 wear
3rd violation = 2 wear
4th violation = DQ
If there is no wear to pay the penalty, the car spins (1 wear) and may suffer damage (2 wear).

Having said that, I'm also ok if they don't change.


I think this is the winner. It has to be.