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Post 20 Jul 2011, 7:09 am

Clearly, the game names are Civil War battles beginning with "C." I'm curious: Was it a purposeful decision to use only names that were Confederate Victories? Are there any other common themes?
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Post 21 Jul 2011, 6:26 am

RUFFHAUS 8 wrote:"Check out the big brain on Brad!"


Is the championship game going to be Battle of Front Royal with Cheese?
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Post 22 Jul 2011, 6:11 pm

Did Chancellorsville not get off and running yet?
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Post 28 Jul 2011, 9:34 pm

RUFFHAUS 8 wrote:I was trying to find six in Virginia as well, but Centerville and Chantilly are really small skirmishes affiliated with Manassas.


Well you could have used Cedar Creek. It's a C and in Virginia. Oh wait the good guys won that one. :grin: :wink:
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Post 10 Aug 2011, 6:38 pm

It was a tactial and strategic thrashing. Early completely surprised the Army of the Shenendoah while it's commander was away at a meeting and drove it off the field. Sheridan came back, rallied his troops and took back the ground lost but also cut off Early's escape routes and captured a large portion of his army. For it to be a draw, both armies would have to end up in their starting positions. That was not the case because Early's command ceased to exist. .

Further, also given the size of battles by 1864, I don't know if I would consider a difference of 10,000 significantly outnumbered.

Further, the battle ended Early's force as an independent threat in the Valley or any where. Further it completely ended any possibilities of protecting the Valley which was the only remaining economic and agricultural region of Virginia worth anything.
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Post 15 Aug 2011, 7:05 am

Dude,

Yes, Sheridan took back what he lost and it would have been a draw if Early army continued to exist as a fighting force at the end of the battle. However, when there are two sides at the start of a battle, and only one side at the end of the battle, that is a victory for the remaining side.

Yes you can argue the casualty percentages were the same. However, the fact that most of Early's army disintegrated in rout and ran miles off the battlefield, with most of it's artillery, wagon train, and thousands of men captured means it was nothing but an unmitigated, humiliating defeat for the Rebs.

A draw implies that two fighting forces entered the day, fought a battle, and ended the day in their relative starting points in a position to continue the fight. That was not the case at Cedar Creek.
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Post 15 Aug 2011, 10:53 am

RUFFHAUS 8 wrote:Russ (dude), you're so emotionally invested in this subject that you should really avoid trying to talk about it on any rational platform.
Frankly, I'm looking from the pigs to the man and back to the pigs, and finding it hard to tell the difference.

You guys had a fair old knock-about on the forums over the Civil War already, no need to bring it to the games forum as well.

truce?
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Post 15 Aug 2011, 4:52 pm

No Randy I am not saying that all Sheridan did was take back his own stuff. I am saying that Sheridan took back his own camps, the 18 pieces of artillery that was lost plus an additional 23 guns that were Early's. In addition the wagon train I am refering to is not Sheridans own being recaptured but those of Early's train in addition.

Further, I am not sure what battle you are talking about because Cedar Creek was a one day battle on October 19th, 1864. This battle was the end of the Valley Campaings. This is the time line of events that I know of Cedar Creek. At about 5am (just before sunrise) on October 19th, Early's forces hit the Army of the Shenendoah achieving complete surpise. They hit the VIII Corp first which breaks an runs. The next in line was the XIX Corps which also broke and ran. Finally Early hits the VI Corps which retreats in good order. At this point, Early losses control his his forces as the hungary Rebs start to ransack the Union camps and stuff themselves on Union rations that were cooking over the fires in the captured camps. This first phase of the battle ends around 10amish.

Early gets him men back under control and starts to renew the offensive around 3pm on October 19th (the same day). The attack stalls out and by 4pm the Union VI Corp is counter attacking. This attack pushes Early back beyond his starting point, i.e. taking back the ground lost plus some note here I am saying for the 3rd time Sheridan did more then just retake the ground he lost. While this is going on Cavalry units break the Confederate left flank, get in behind Early's lines. At this point, the Confederates break and run. They try for an orderly retreat. However, while back there the Cavalry destroyed a bridge and cut off most avenues of retreat. They then get in amongest the retreating Confederates. This caused the retreat to devolve into a rout.

Early captured a couple of hundred Union soldiers in the morning actions. Sheridan, on the other hand, captured thousands of Confederates in the afternoon action.

Now you can make an argument that Early was called back to Lee because his operation was over but that is only because his force was no longer capable of carrying out it's purpose. The purpose of sending Early to the Shenendoah was two fold, 1.)protect the last major economic and agricultural producing area in Virigina and 2.) draw off and defeat forces from Grant's army in Petersburg. Specifically Lee ordered Early in an October 12, 1864 letter to move against and crush Sheridan. Not only did he fail to do this, after Cedar Creek his force was completely incapable on doing anything.

I would argue you are the one blinded by his passions in regards to this. Trying to claim that the two different parts of the action of Cedar Creek represent two different battles is like trying to claim Gettysburg was actually Lee victory because he clearly won the first day of the battle while the 2nd and 3rd days were seperate actions. Sorry Randy, but you are incorrect in this aspect.