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Post 13 Sep 2012, 7:32 am

geojanes wrote:I'm hoping that the memorial is nicer once all the surrounding construction is done, but Brad, make no mistake, they are rebuilding every SF of floor area that was destroyed. It is NY after all.


Every SF of floor area at the WTC?
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Post 13 Sep 2012, 9:18 am

Surprised? Come on, man, this is NYC, no one leaves floor area on the table! That's part of the reason why there was such fuss over the first design schemes. There is only so many ways you can put a program of 18,000,000 SF of space onto 16 acres.
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Post 13 Sep 2012, 10:59 am

What is wrong with crying over the dead? Or quiet reflection?

I defer to the resident New Yorker(s) to give their opinion of what it should be, rather than projecting onto them what I think they should feel or want. Similarly, the relatives and survivors trump the opinions of pretty much everyone else when it comes to memorials.
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Post 14 Sep 2012, 6:32 am

danivon wrote:What is wrong with crying over the dead? Or quiet reflection?

I defer to the resident New Yorker(s) to give their opinion of what it should be, rather than projecting onto them what I think they should feel or want. Similarly, the relatives and survivors trump the opinions of pretty much everyone else when it comes to memorials.


Thank you, Dr. Phil for that entirely pointless post.

I post this only to salute you!
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Post 14 Sep 2012, 7:37 am

Good. I would love to see it someday.
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Post 14 Sep 2012, 8:19 am

Doctor Fate wrote:
danivon wrote:What is wrong with crying over the dead? Or quiet reflection?

I defer to the resident New Yorker(s) to give their opinion of what it should be, rather than projecting onto them what I think they should feel or want. Similarly, the relatives and survivors trump the opinions of pretty much everyone else when it comes to memorials.


Thank you, Dr. Phil for that entirely pointless post.

I post this only to salute you!
Thanks so much for your considered and generous reply.

You aren't to know this, but I was at a funeral last week, and after the release of the documents relating to Hillsborough I have been mulling a bit over death, grief, and how we react. I have no shame in saying that I have shed a tear for people who are dead in the past few days.
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Post 14 Sep 2012, 8:21 am

bbauska wrote:Good. I would love to see it someday.
As would I. 15 years ago I went up to the top of one of the towers. 6 years ago I visited the site (then a very large hole with constructuon).
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Post 14 Sep 2012, 8:28 am

danivon wrote:
I post this only to salute you!
Thanks so much for your considered and generous reply.

You aren't to know this, but I was at a funeral last week, and after the release of the documents relating to Hillsborough I have been mulling a bit over death, grief, and how we react. I have no shame in saying that I have shed a tear for people who are dead in the past few days.


You've no corner on the grief market. I buried my father a few months ago.

I miss him, his humor, and his silly phone calls every day.

That has nothing to do with the WTC. I think if there was a survey done on 9/14 of NYC residents, I doubt they would have wanted a place where they could just go and cry. While we all understand grief (it is a universal condition: we all deal with the death of loved ones), there is a lot more to 9/11 than grief.

If I go to Shanksville, I want a sense of the fight those people put up. Yes, I grieve their loss, but I am thankful they took those evil expletives with them.

I don't really get the empty bench thing at the Pentagon, but that was some artist's decision.

In NYC, it ought to have been a real NYC "salute" to the idea that terrorists could make that city shake with fear. Yes, a place to reflect, but more a monument to the spirit of New York City. I don't believe that has been achieved.
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Post 14 Sep 2012, 8:39 am

I'm not claiming a 'corner', just pointing out that we all see these things differently, and we don't all grieve in the same way. Some of do cry for the dead. Some of us do want a time or space for quiet reflection.

I do not presume, as you do, to know what 'New Yorkers' want or what 'ought' to be there. I don't know what the relatives of the victims want, but I don't see you even acknowledge them. I ask a question about grief, and you come back with a smart-alec reply.

I am sorry to hear about your father. Every passing is a loss to us all.
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Post 14 Sep 2012, 9:24 am

danivon wrote:I am sorry to hear about your father. Every passing is a loss to us all.


Upon that, we can agree.
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Post 11 Sep 2013, 12:50 pm

It's very nearly done. They've taken down the exterior elevator and they're just doing interior finishings. The design isn't great, and the market for the space is uncertain, but . . .

Better late than never!


Image
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Post 11 Sep 2013, 1:02 pm

Pretty. Not what I would have done, but . . .
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Post 12 Sep 2013, 8:43 am

ruffhaus
As for what we've learned since the attacks is that the lunatic voices like ricky's will drag us back into complacency and vulnerability again. These voices will tell us it's our fault that people hate us and mean to murder us, and that we should just accept it and allow them to do it, because we are the white devils of the west, and we deserve this. They'll trot out every dogshit argument and link internet '"sources" to back their claims of a peaceful non-violent Islamic world that we just misunderstand. And in this respect the terrorists have won. We have the capacity and technology to exterminate the enemy, and put real fear into any that would follow, but we choose to live in fear of them instead, and they only hate us more because of how weak we are.


First: how does my support for the Kosovo bombings, the intervention in Libya, qualified support for the use oif Drones and spport for the AFghan conflict square with your caricature of me?
Second: You're calling fro the extermination of the enemy (all muslims?) and I'm the lunatic?
You might want to learn the difference between Islamists and Musims... and try and understand why Islamists have enjoyed support in the 29th century. Actually knowing your enemy can be useful when dealing with them ... .
A great book I've started by maajid nawaz might help inform you....(google him)

Although maybe, based on your derision of "sources" it might not be useful pointing to a source of information for you ....
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Post 12 Sep 2013, 8:47 am

rickyp wrote:try and understand why Islamists have enjoyed support in the 29th century. Actually knowing your enemy can be useful when dealing with them ... .
A great book I've started by maajid nawaz might help inform you....(google him)

Although maybe, based on your derision of "sources" it might not be useful pointing to a source of information for you ....


29th Century?
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Post 12 Sep 2013, 10:22 am

bbauska wrote:
rickyp wrote:try and understand why Islamists have enjoyed support in the 29th century. Actually knowing your enemy can be useful when dealing with them ... .
A great book I've started by maajid nawaz might help inform you....(google him)

Although maybe, based on your derision of "sources" it might not be useful pointing to a source of information for you ....


29th Century?


This war is going to go on for a long time ...