Best wishes to Ray Jay, bbauska, and others, but this is just not worth it. When someone goes after me personally, based on what he knows I do for a living, continually distorts, etc., this forum has become more of a nuisance than anything else.

I know someone here thinks I don't like to be challenged. I've no problem with that. I do have a problem with the trolling manner in which this is done. The latest was the whole nonsense about "just asking" whether the US has more assets than debt. If that was truly his inspiration, why rely on others to do the research? Who else does that--throw out impossible ideas (like the concept that someone might readily rattle off the total value of American assets) and then act as though he/she was trying to be helpful?

Anyway, peace to Danivon. I'm sure he'll find others to annoy. He's got that nailed down. Me?

Better things to do. Like actually winning Diplomacy games.

Oh, and this is not a threat. I'm just out. Done, finished. The only way I would consider coming back is with an acknowledgement from Danivon that he has, in fact, played the part of a total jerk.

On the other hand, I could just as easily hope for Mecca to convert to Christianity or President Obama to become a conservative.

All three are equally likely.

Take care!

Doctor Fate, I am quite able to accept that I may come across as a jerk, and even I am one at times.

Even though you have not acknowledged that you lied (that was what I was trying to get you to admit, and you tried to Clinton your way out of if), I am not in the mood to quit over it. If you don't have the decency to accept your error and at the same time expect that I accept mine, that is up to you.

Oh, I did not go after you based on what you do for a living. There's a common expression used over here (and which I believe is used over there) which concerns 'Preaching to the choir'. If the use of that kind of wording annoyed you, it was not intended to be a slight on your job (which is only as 'private' as the level to which you have expressed that it's your job on the internet and on here) but to refer to the kind of echo chamber thread that we get here nowadays.

Although I've never met him face to face, Steve's a pretty affable guy; one-on-one, funny, witty, a good dipper on either side of an alliance, but you wouldn't know it by looking at the posts he's made lately. Lots of anger, almost no humor, some things that are pretty edgy. It's probably a good thing for him to take a break.

I think there's a certain amount of good and bad that comes with all personality traits and people. We all annoy each other at times, and we all get hot under the collar at times. It's human.

I do agree that Steve can quickly get very argumentative and angry. All the same, I have benefited more from Steve's posts than from anyone else. It's great to get a rigorous, consistent and heavily analytical conservative view. In a world where liberals often accuse conservatives of ignorance, it's great to have that dispelled right off the bat.

Steve and Danivon conflict on both ideology and style. I wish there were a way to set up ground rules so that they don't escalate to "Jane you ignorant slut" so quickly. Does anyone have ideas on that?

Rules? I've always assumed that it was 'Highlander' rules.

The Golden Rule of reciprocity applies always.

Would that be "do unto others as they have done unto you"?

Its been phrased a hundred different ways in every major religion and philosophy... So take your pick.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/reciproc3.htm

http://www.religioustolerance.org/reciproc.htm

I wrote it above to see if you would have caught the nuance.

"Do unto other as you would have them do unto you" is different than "do unto others as they have done unto you"

It comes down to how you want to be treated, rather than a retaliation mentality.

Brad, it's a good distinction. How many slights before you go from "would have" to "have"?

Dr. Fate missed a good week from a conservative partisan's perspective ... weak economic news ... disappointing details on Obama's stimulus plan ... Republican victories in congressional elections. It's like Reggie Jackson not playing baseball in October.

Scripture says 70 times 7.

Do we put ourselves in the position to be hurt 490 times? Certainly not, but if someone comes to you and repents, we are called to forgive them 490 times. I do not think there has been 490 slights, or for that matter that many repentances.

The board has been quiet since the departure. I share the feelings of those who have left. Sometimes, it is not worth the effort to bash at each other just to be opposed without clear thought about what the other side says. This is a problem on both sides. I find myself discounting just about anything RickyP says. I read his posts, but look at the grammar/spelling first. The rest is read, but it is with bias. For that, I apologize. I see him as an ideologue, whereas Danivon has good points that I disagree with in most cases. However, the banter between Danivon and the departed reached a high water mark that was clearly divisive and not heard by either side.

I think these forums should be seen as an opportunity to engage other people with one's political views. We should also know that when we belittle other people's views or attack their views harshly, or even attack them personally that we should expect the same in return. Steve is the only person that I have met personally on Redscape (World Dip Championships in 2003 or 2004 in Denver). He is an exceptionally talented diplomacy player. I think therefore he is highly intelligent. I have not read anything close to all of the posts involving Steve and Dan, but what strikes me most about them is how bad of a person Steve thinks Dan is. I have never thought that Dan is a bad person, is mean-spirited or delights in making fun of others. Anyway, without assigning blame it is clear that Steve and Dan cannot debate issues without personally attacking each other. It seems to me the solution is simply for them not to debate each other in any direct way on these forums.

And while we are on this topic, I think the attacks on RickyP to be somewhat harsh as well, which by the way he seems to take in stride.

In just this thread Steve has called him a total jerk, and you've called him a wise ass and a bully.

And who cares if they are off enjoying some niche forum. Danivon has contributed as much to the forums as of late as anyone else. Friendships and common interests are bound to develop over the years and spin offs are to be expected.

Sorry, randy, I am not trying to run people off, whatever you may think. I take some pretty low stuff from you and others, such as your claims that I call you a racist (which I never have), but I have the temerity to argue back. Personal jabs are fine for the course, it seems. It's ok to call me a commie, suggest I am no different from Stalinists, associate everything that Obama does with me, say I hate America. All untrue, but there you go.

And in debate I have the sheer gall to read what I write, what others write, and to point out where others contradict themselves or are factually incorrect. The same happens to me.

Oh, and I did not start the 'other forum'. I was invited, and invited to be a moderator. A task that I undertake my moving a few posts around if they are in the wrong thread. At no point have I (or any others) had to step in to actually moderate anyone. Your characterisation of it as a bastion of socialism is typical of the kind of stuff you accuse me of. It wasn't started up to promote ideologies you like to slur. If you want to know why it was set up, and why it is invite-only, have a word with Heck or MinX about it.

I don't see why I should leave this one simply because I joined that one. Neither do I appreciate your passive-aggressive suggestion that I should. but hey. I will suck it up.

I won't re-open the Steve issue, as it's not fair on him if he's not going to defend himself, but frankly Randy, one of the most bad-tempered and out of order debates I've seen was between you and Russell over the Civil War. You even had to bring it up in a thread for the tourney.

Still, I think Redscape is in big trouble. We are much smaller than a year ago, before the crash and the 'new look'. We don't seem to get many games set up in the PBEM side, and I can't see the form that used to be used. OTTO is fine, but the pool of players is fairly small and the game I'm in at the moment is falling apart due to drop-outs. The big tourney came to an end and the replacement is still finding it's feet. Frankly, the state of the politics threads is the least of our problems.

I hope it gets better. Heck, I'll host a game or two if it's made easier to show up how to set it up and it appears there are willing players.

(Neal - thanks. nice to see you have noticed the irony)