https://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/commentary/2023/07/15/no-labels-is-a-threat-to-major-parties-their-attacks-prove-it/

No Labels 2024 looks like a movement. Joe Lieberman, a man who I respect, wrote this article about No Labels 2024. Considering that I am a conservative who does not like the option of Donald Trump, let alone the thought of another 4 years of President Biden (and his son who he accepts and granddaughter he does not accept... #ironical dichotomy), I am interested in where this could go. As I vote for the person, and not the letter behind their name, I would love to see who would be running for the No Labels campaign.

I am interested in what others think. Is this something that people are able to support at the risk of a candidate from the other political side might be elected? As for me, I have voted third party before. I am willing to risk a conservative result for the purpose of voting my conscience. Isn't that what we should be doing, after all?

Continually doing the same thing repetitively and expecting a different result is the definition of insanity. America needs a change. Biden v Trump is not working. I would hope that would be the first realization. The sooner America lets that sink in, the better.

Two things to note:

1. I would prefer better candidates, big time.
2. I am not comfortable in either political party ideologically.

But even given that, the historical pattern is that a 3rd party candidate will influence the election, but won't win it, and in fact will generally give the election to the candidate that is least like the 3rd party candidate.

William Galston wrote an Op Ed in today's WSJ indicating that No Labels would likely give the election to Trump which is something that is too scary for me. Current polling shows that 2/3rds of No Labels votes would come from Biden supporters.

In my mind, neither Trump nor Biden is competent. The difference is that Biden hires people who are competent and they are the ones who basically run our government.

Trump insists on running the show without consultation which is a dangerous dynamic that would be even worse in his 2nd term.

If the 3rd party candidate gains momentum, perhaps this time would be different? However, the more likely scenario is that Trump would win the electoral count and / or the States via the Congress would give him the nod.

I'm pretty much aligned with RJ, though I would be a bit more charitable to Biden.

I've typically voted third parties, and generally think they are a good thing for the civic health of the nation. Further, the existing party apparatus is horrible and deserves to be retired, and more choices are generally better.

All that said, if you think, as I do, that Trump is an existential threat to the country, now's not the time. Another term of Biden is infinitely better than Trump. Another term of just about anyone, would be infinitely better than Trump.

Last year, for the first time, I registered as a Democrat so I could vote in a local primary. In a state with closed primaries where the decisions are made in the primary, I was effectively disenfranchised as an independent, so I did it.

But I'm thinking of changing it so I can vote in the Republican presidential primary. I actually gave a buck to Chris Christie and Doug Bergum so they could get on the debate stage. Christie is doing a service for all of us AND he's entertaining. The best thing for everyone would be if someone else won the Republican primary so that it was Biden vs not-Trump.

Dems who want Trump because he is beatable are insane. Better to lose an election than to lose a country.

No Labels is a cynical attempt by conservatives to get Trump elected. If you are worried about Trump then don't vote for No Labels.

"Dems who want Trump because he is beatable are insane. Better to lose an election than to lose a country."

DeSantis is pretty bad too. Chris Christie is not an authoritarian so I would far prefer him than Trump or DeSantis. But it doesn't seem like DeSantis is going to give Trump much competition so it's probably a moot point.

Unfortunately, Biden appointed an AG who was not up to the moment. We should have had a special counsel investigating Trump for Jan. 6th immediately after Biden was appointed and hopefully Trump would now be in jail. Jack Smith is doing a good job but I think time might be running out to get a conviction before the election. The "Establishment"--including Biden and Garland--seems to have been against holding Trump accountable for his crimes and that was a major miscalculation. I guess they thought he was no longer relevant after 2020 but they underestimated MAGA's cult-like devotion to him (and a lot of other Repubs' tolerance of him as long as he could win) and Russia's hold over him.

What I think will be so hard for historians to understand is why the West was so passive with regard to Russia's attempt to subvert Western institutions and NATO--The US but also England, France, Italy, and Germany. We were asleep at the wheel. Fortunately, Russia miscalculated and did not invade Ukraine during Trump's tenure (presumably because they thought doing so would hurt Trump's chances of reelection) and then Ukraine proved to be extremely tough.

I don't know, Biden has been somewhat effective. And I really don't think that is due to his advisors. Yes, there are some cognitive issues from age I suppose that pop up periodically but so far they look minor. He has demonstrated that he can effectively handle press conferences. It's not like they have to hide him in the West Wing. It's a concern that things might get worse but I far prefer taking that risk over authoritarians like Trump/DeSantis. Even if he were incompetent I would choose him over those guys. We have a mechanism for dealing with such a situation, whereas if Trump/DeSantis get elected we're in big trouble.

If you're really concerned about Trump getting elected Brad, vote for Biden. Hopefully, things will have calmed down in another 4 years and there will be a reasonable Repub to vote for in 2028.

I understand your desire, Freeman, to not have Trump be elected. I do not agree however, that No Labels is a cynical attempt. Joe Lieberman has NOT EVER been a Republican. I think he is an honored man, staunch in his desire for the well-being of America.

If it was a "Cynical" ruse, wouldn't all the conservatives vote for Republican candidate, and not support the No Labels party?

You may not agree with them, but you cannot question the integrity. Please show me something showing the false integrity of Lieberman.

What Does Joe Leiberman have to do with the No Labels ticket?

Its going to be Joe Manchin and John Huntsman.

"Monmouth tested Manchin and Huntsman as an alternative ticket in a Biden-Trump race and found that only 2% of voters would definitely vote for this specific third-party option and just 14% would probably vote for them. Moreover, 44% definitely would not vote for a Manchin-Huntsman ticket and 31% probably would not."

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2023/07 ... named.html

I doubt that Manchin will have much appeal nationally.. And Huntsman has already proven to have no appeal.

The question is whether or not 2 to 3 % is somehow going to effect close states in a Trump v Biden race...
I can think of no greater catastrophe than a Trump win with 45% of the votes..
According to Maggie Haberman his main motivation for running is that re-election seems to be the only way he'll stay out of jail. Apparently his lawyers have told him he will loose at least two of the 5 cases against him.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/markjoyella/2023/07/19/maggie-haberman-trump-advisors-believe-winning-the-2024-election-is-only-way-to-avoid-facing-jail-time/?sh=531720387382

Imagine the appeal "A vote for Biden is a vote to send Donald Trump to jail"...

Joe Lieberman is not well-liked in any part of the Democratic base that is left of center. I could care less what his opinion of No Labels is; he's a Republican as far as I'm concerned.

rickyp wrote:What Does Joe Leiberman have to do with the No Labels ticket?

Its going to be Joe Manchin and John Huntsman.

"Monmouth tested Manchin and Huntsman as an alternative ticket in a Biden-Trump race and found that only 2% of voters would definitely vote for this specific third-party option and just 14% would probably vote for them. Moreover, 44% definitely would not vote for a Manchin-Huntsman ticket and 31% probably would not."

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2023/07 ... named.html

I doubt that Manchin will have much appeal nationally.. And Huntsman has already proven to have no appeal.

The question is whether or not 2 to 3 % is somehow going to effect close states in a Trump v Biden race...
I can think of no greater catastrophe than a Trump win with 45% of the votes..
According to Maggie Haberman his main motivation for running is that re-election seems to be the only way he'll stay out of jail. Apparently his lawyers have told him he will loose at least two of the 5 cases against him.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/markjoyella/2023/07/19/maggie-haberman-trump-advisors-believe-winning-the-2024-election-is-only-way-to-avoid-facing-jail-time/?sh=531720387382

Imagine the appeal "A vote for Biden is a vote to send Donald Trump to jail"...

It doesn't take much for a third party candidate to affect an election. Look at Ralph Nader in 2000...

Mother Jones tried to trace where the money for No Labels is coming from but they couldn't because of the dark money we can't trace due to Citizen's United. But a common sense interpretation is that it's financed by those who want Trump to win. Why? Because that would be the effect of them putting forth a centrist candidate.

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/20 ... 2024-race/

Quite cynical, all of you.

Enjoy YOUR two party system. Such mentality will NEVER allow elections to get better. Just the same old drivel from each side because both sides live more in fear of each other, than desire for honesty and better candidates. Does ANYONE believe Biden or Trump would be the best President?

Sad.

bbauska wrote:Quite cynical, all of you.

Enjoy YOUR two party system. Such mentality will NEVER allow elections to get better. Just the same old drivel from each side because both sides live more in fear of each other, than desire for honesty and better candidates. Does ANYONE believe Biden or Trump would be the best President?

Sad.

Sad? Really? I've already wrote that I usually vote third party and the system sucks and the existing party apparatus should be retired. But on one side, you've got a guy who tried to steal an election, and almost did. Does that not alarm you? As a patriot, if there was a guy who threatens democracy, wouldn't you do something, anything to stop it? I wish you could explain it to me. Honestly. I don't understand the lack of alarm.

In my opinion, it's not a legitimate third party. It's an attempt--as is RFK, Jr.'s candidacy--to sway votes away from Biden to get Trump elected. I would be quite surprised if No Labels lasts beyond 2024.

You think it's legit. That's fine. It's your right to vote for them.

But our political system has taken heavy manipulation from Republican operatives the past 10 years, this operation does not appear to have the signs of a legitimate third party (just springs out of nowhere right before an election with no real agenda), and oh by the way it will almost certainly help Repubs.

So, I'm not buying they're legit. If that makes me cynical...so be it.

The problem not that Trump would be a bad president, is that he would be a good dictator. That's not a choice anyone should be comfortable making.

geojanes wrote:

bbauska wrote:Quite cynical, all of you.

Enjoy YOUR two party system. Such mentality will NEVER allow elections to get better. Just the same old drivel from each side because both sides live more in fear of each other, than desire for honesty and better candidates. Does ANYONE believe Biden or Trump would be the best President?

Sad.

Sad? Really? I've already wrote that I usually vote third party and the system sucks and the existing party apparatus should be retired. But on one side, you've got a guy who tried to steal an election, and almost did. Does that not alarm you? As a patriot, if there was a guy who threatens democracy, wouldn't you do something, anything to stop it? I wish you could explain it to me. Honestly. I don't understand the lack of alarm.

Yeah, that's what I don't get about Repubs that don't support Trump (I'm not talking about Brad just in general about non-MAGA Repubs). A lot of them would still vote for Trump if the alternative is Biden when Trump for all intents and purposes attempted a coup to stay in power. Like Dems in power would be so bad to them that apparently they'll risk an authoritarian who could effectively end democracy and take away their freedoms. I guess they calculate that won't happen but I don't know what that is based on.

MAGA is only 30%; it's the other Republicans who have to reject Trump. The problem is where does the Repub Party go from here. I'm not sure MAGA is willing to go back to pre-Trump. So if the party tries to go more moderate to attract more votes, MAGA will bolt. And catering to MAGA's extreme views--which includes wanting a charismatic authoritarian to be president--is just untenable. I just got no idea how we fix this.

But at least let's not elect Trump again!