Thank you for trying to answer the questions.

A relative, why does it matter? Because JUSTICE matters. Why do we punish criminals?... Same reason. JUSTICE matters.

Different states, why does it matter? Because the law matters. SCOTUS sent it back to the states. Each state is it's own little freedom experiment. It is sad that you do not want the states to have choice, but you want the people to have choice. People do have choice... The choice to go where they want to act upon their life choices and situations.

ND Law... WRONG! 20 weeks currently.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_North_Dakota
Abortion in North Dakota is legal before 20 weeks of gestation until the July 28, 2022 when the state’s trigger law, following the United States' Supreme Court ruling to overturn Roe v. Wade on June 24, 2022, will go into effect. The trigger law bans all abortions except to save the life of the mother or in the case of rape or incest, reported to law enforcement.

Dred Scott... My point is that you want State's Rights upheld sometimes, and not others. That is a dichotomy in my view. You think the state has the right to enforce restrictions on people in the case of masking and Covid-landlord policies, but not Abortion. Personally, I think you can do as you, me, a business or anyone can do as they wish as long as not affecting others. If you affect others, there should be state supported retribution for your actions. (If you injure another, the law should take affect, and I see the "Clump of Cells as another person.)

Apparently, that is our difference. You do not see a fetus as a separate entity regardless of gestation. SCOTUS disagrees with you.

Did you read the thread reader app article?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/07/09/one-source-story-about-10-year-old-an-abortion-goes-viral/

Crickets???

bbauska wrote:https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/07/09/one-source-story-about-10-year-old-an-abortion-goes-viral/

Crickets???

From your article:

"The Columbus Dispatch reported that in 2020, 52 people under the age of 15 received an abortion in Ohio."

bbauska wrote:You do not see a fetus as a separate entity regardless of gestation. SCOTUS disagrees with you.

That's not true. They just said that abortion is not constitutionally protected.

bbauska

A relative, why does it matter? Because JUSTICE matters. Why do we punish criminals?... Same reason. JUSTICE matters

The law regarding rape hasn't been changed by SOTUS. The perpetrators should and will be prosecuted. And no one is debating that...

The law regarding access to abortion by a raped 10 year has now changed in Ohio... And that's what's being discussed.

Tell me. Is it just to force a 10 year old to give birth after she has been raped?

That's the issue at hand.

You can waffle and talk about States rights, etc. Or you can answer the question directly.
Now that the poor girl has been raped and impregnated, would you force her to deliver 9 months later?

I do not think the 10 year old should have to carry the child. However, I think the guilty party should be identified. I am willing to concede identified rape (within 2 wks?), and grave physical danger to the mother. I have said that before. Abortion should not be for the use of birth control.

You both seem to skip the supposed validity of this "Viral" story

Of course there are moral/ethical issues in how any human life is treated. And most people have an intuitive sense that the more developed the fetus, the more consideration there should be for the fetus. That's why there is very strong (70%) support for abortion through the first trimester

But religion has hijacked this issue, particularly Evangelicals. According to the CDC, 92.7% of abortions occur by the 13th week, by about the time that most Americans support. Less than 1% occur after the 21st week. One study from 1992 indicated that only about.02% of abortions were at 26th week or later (about 300-600).


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.kff.or ... nancy/amp/

Judaism does not ban abortion. The Vatican did not ban abortion before quickening until 1869. The Common Law for the most part did not ban abortion prior to quickening. It was only in the mid-1800s when women started to demand more active participation in society that you started to see US states banning abortion prior to quickening. Infanticide and abortion remedies were usesd for most of human history when homo sapiens were living on the cusp of survival. The idea of wholesale banning of abortion is a very recent development in the last couple of hundred years.

Beyond that, the problems with the State balancing the health of the mother versus the fetus, or making women carry to term fetuses with lethal fetal abnormalities (or very severe ones) makes state laws awful in many instances. Can you abort an ectopic pregnancy (yes, always, but state laws can be unclear), How do you define health of the mother and how long will doctors wait before giving treatment and the mother's health is declining before aborting the pregnancy?Can you give medications that the mother needs if it might harm the fetus? And on and on. It's a messy, messy legal thicket with never-ending problems.

A woman is in the best position to make these difficult moral/ethical decisions and the Suprrme Court just took away her right to do so...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.newyor ... tients/amp

bbauska wrote:You both seem to skip the supposed validity of this "Viral" story

I did with this:

"The Columbus Dispatch reported that in 2020, 52 people under the age of 15 received an abortion in Ohio."

It doesn't matter if this 10 year old is real or not, there are many children who are getting pregnant and having abortions.

It DOES matter. Our President said he spoke with her personally. For it to be a hoax would mean that HE lied.

Justice matters to me. Honesty matters to me. It may not matter to some, but it matters to me. That is HONOR. It is the basest elements of a person's character.

GeoJanes... It DOES matter. Our President said he spoke with her personally. For it to be a hoax would mean that HE lied.

Justice matters to me. Honesty matters to me. It may not matter to some, but it matters to me. That is HONOR. It is the basest elements of a person's character.



Freeman, you have good points. The Libertarian in me supports the woman making choices as to the validity of an abortion. The Christian in me respects the life given from our God.

I am in conflict about respecting life/ standing up for the weak; and letting people make choices that harm the unborn.

bbauska wrote:It DOES matter. Our President said he spoke with her personally. For it to be a hoax would mean that HE lied.

Justice matters to me. Honesty matters to me. It may not matter to some, but it matters to me. That is HONOR. It is the basest elements of a person's character.

I'm not seeing that Biden said he spoke with her personally. This is the quote from your article:

“This isn’t some imagined horror. It is already happening. Just last week, it was reported that a 10-year-old girl was a rape victim — 10 years old — and she was forced to have to travel out of state to Indiana to seek to terminate the pregnancy and maybe save her life.”

He said "it was reported."

My point is that this crime, impregnating children, is not uncommon. You are focusing on a single instance, which may or may not be accurate. The accuracy of this single instance does not change the fact that this crime is happening again and again and again. The larger issue is what to do about generally. What does honor and justice dictate to you?

bbauska

The Christian in me respects the life given from our God

Christ, according to the Gospels, said nothing about abortion.

About 1 in 5 pregnancies end in spontaneous abortion before 20 weeks. (also called miscarriage) Strikes me that until at least then nature hasn't decided if life has actually been gifted...

Fact is, if a woman ends a pregnancy with a pill before say 12 weeks, there's also significant doubt that the pregnancy would have proceed anyway.

rickyp wrote:bbauska

The Christian in me respects the life given from our God

Christ, according to the Gospels, said nothing about abortion.

Either does the Constitution...

https://www.dispatch.com/story/news/2022/07/13/columbus-man-charged-rape-10-year-old-led-abortion-in-indiana/10046625002/

NEWSFLASH

Here is the man who confessed to the rape.

Justice is punishing him to the fullest extent of the law.

Honor is defending those who cannot defend themselves.

Your expressed reason for abhoring abortion "The Christian in me respects the life given from our God".

The Constitution may not say something about abortion. But it does say something about rights.

" The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

This particular Scotus clearly chose that States had a right to make a law about an individuals body. Their health. Their autonomy.

They could have chosen to have the right be reserved for the people. In which case it would clearly be the prerogative of women to choose what they do medically.

But no... Scotus saw that the State governments should be able to control women's bodies...

More in line with Sharia law than liberty. More in line with authoritarian regimes than a "land of liberty".