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Adjutant
 
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Post 31 Jan 2016, 7:55 pm

Well, again, for those who entered before the bill passed in 1944 the contract theory does not work--that would have been millions of Americans who entered service prior to that. Also since the draft was in effect until after the Vietnam War, then anyone drafted would not have freely contracted to get those benefits. I also doubt that those veterans who volunteered in WWII after the bill passed did so to get college benefits. But for the volunteer army after the Vietnam War, yes, the contract theory works. But I thought we were mainly discussing WWII veterans.

Also in reading stuff about how the GI bill discriminated against blacks, I came across this interesting study/explanation for the white-black gap in test scores--parent and child verbal interaction early in life.

http://news.psu.edu/story/215705/2004/0 ... early-home
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Statesman
 
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Post 01 Feb 2016, 6:35 am

fate
Something like 65% of Democrats believe the American system is rigged. Translation: they're a bunch of whiners who blame others for their failures


Source?
Here's a source... but its not just Democrats...

Among those saying the system is stacked against them are 58% of Democrats; 51% of Republicans; 55% of whites; 60% of blacks; 53% of Hispanics; as well as decent majorities of every age and professional cluster, including blue-collar workers, white-collar workers and retirees.


http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2014/11/2 ... inst-them/

Perhaps you haven't been absorbing the content of the Republican debates. But the theme that the economic system treats people unequally is pretty consistent. Its just that the remedies on offer don't actually fix this..
Like the GI Bill did.
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Post 01 Feb 2016, 6:48 am

bbauska
Yes. Jim Crow was bad and unequal. They also have been gone for 50 years. Live in the here and now, and answer my questions, please.


We're discussing the effects of the GI Bill. Its greatest effects were in the 50's and the 60s when it was given to the most, and when its benefits were greatest. And included things like small business laons. Todays GI benefits are much leaner.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/06/28/opinion/a ... r-gi-bill/

Fate
Furthermore, it benefited those who had sacrificed for their country, not those who sat on their buttocks--or took some other course in life. Nothing in "socialism" requires that sort of risking of one's life in order to participate in a plan like this
.
A GI who served as a typing clerk in a new Jersey ship yards got the same benefits as someone who served in a front line combat unit.
There were no restrictions.
They all got "other peoples money" in order to go to college or start a business. And in doing so, society prospered...
This was in a period when the US federal government ran operating surpluses and paid down the debt. And in periods of very high taxation relative to today. A booming economy helped this situation but it also contradicts conservative ideology that it isn't possible to have high taxation and a booming economy. It also contradicts the myth that if society people benefits like a free secondary education that they'll suddenly become lazy...
Which you repeat here...
Fate
Btw, what in the American experience suggests that a massive grant of money to people who have never done anything is going to make them into productive members of society
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Post 01 Feb 2016, 7:00 am

Fate
But, here's what we know: even if you were an American, you would not have served


I know your a bitter angry old man, but your disdain for all things not American also reflects your ignorance .
The WWI and WWII experiences of other nations was actually far more wrenching than that of the US. 1 of 11 Canadians served in either the Merchant Marine or the Armed forces in WWI. While Canadians died in Ypres, Americans were sitting at home, till April 1917.
By the end of WWII , (which started in September 1939 for Canada, but not till December 1941 for the US) had the world's fourth largest air force, and third largest navy.
And by the way, the one country that was indispensable in defeating Nazi Germany was Russia. The case has been made by many historians that it was largely defeat by the Russians that brought about the end of Hitler...
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Post 01 Feb 2016, 7:57 am

rickyp wrote:fate
Something like 65% of Democrats believe the American system is rigged. Translation: they're a bunch of whiners who blame others for their failures


Source?


This is funny. While it is perfectly reasonable to ask for a source, it is pointless when you actually agree. And, you clearly do.

So, why do that? Oh yeah. I momentarily forgot--it's what you do. Your purpose in life is not to contribute, but to be an irritant. Well done.

Here's a source... but its not just Democrats...

Among those saying the system is stacked against them are 58% of Democrats; 51% of Republicans; 55% of whites; 60% of blacks; 53% of Hispanics; as well as decent majorities of every age and professional cluster, including blue-collar workers, white-collar workers and retirees.


http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2014/11/2 ... inst-them/

Perhaps you haven't been absorbing the content of the Republican debates. But the theme that the economic system treats people unequally is pretty consistent. Its just that the remedies on offer don't actually fix this..
Like the GI Bill did.


Hey, tell you what--you can vote for Bernie.

Republicans are ticked off at the bailouts. They're mad about a lot of things. Very few of them believe socialism is the answer. Frankly, we don't want to be Canada.
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Post 01 Feb 2016, 8:23 am

Fate
This is funny. While it is perfectly reasonable to ask for a source, it is pointless when you actually agree. And, you clearly do

It is also perfectly reasonable to offer a source for an assertion without being challenged. You seldom do that...
Did I agree with you? Only half...
Here you offered an assertion that 65% of Democrats believe the system is rigged, and therefor they are whiners...
When offered evidence that 51 % of Republicans must also be whiners, according to your analysis, you conveniently skip that point.

Fate
Republicans are ticked off at the bailouts. They're mad about a lot of things.

Judging by Bernies major campaign themes, so are Democrats...

Fate
Very few of them believe socialism is the answer

And yet none will give up their medicare or social security.
And those who have experienced the positive benefits of the ACA are asking exactly what republicans offer for health care. But don't get any substantive answers.
Here's Cruz
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/politi ... 059455.php

here's Trump
http://www.rawstory.com/2016/01/donald- ... ent-dying/

Or continue to lie about the ACA.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter ... w-nations/
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Post 01 Feb 2016, 9:15 am

rickyp wrote:Fate
This is funny. While it is perfectly reasonable to ask for a source, it is pointless when you actually agree. And, you clearly do

It is also perfectly reasonable to offer a source for an assertion without being challenged. You seldom do that...
Did I agree with you? Only half...
Here you offered an assertion that 65% of Democrats believe the system is rigged, and therefor they are whiners...
When offered evidence that 51 % of Republicans must also be whiners, according to your analysis, you conveniently skip that point.


Nope. I didn't skip it. Of course, you skipped what I said, but that's because lying is your first instinct.

Doctor Fate wrote:Republicans are ticked off at the bailouts. They're mad about a lot of things. Very few of them believe socialism is the answer. Frankly, we don't want to be Canada.


So, no, I didn't skip it. You just transformed into something about Sanders.

Fate
Very few of them believe socialism is the answer

And yet none will give up their medicare or social security.


I'd give mine up . . . as long as I'm fairly compensated. We have paid into that. If you now want to run those programs down, feel free. To me, they're like "whole life"--better than nothing, but not as good as the alternatives.

And those who have experienced the positive benefits of the ACA are asking exactly what republicans offer for health care. But don't get any substantive answers.
Here's Cruz
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/politi ... 059455.php


Yes, socialized medicine. The holy grail! It was just as impressive the first 477 times you posted it.

Keep your socialism in Canada.
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Post 01 Feb 2016, 9:18 am

I am still trying to understand what RickyP means about socialism. Is any government program that "redistributes" wealth from one to another a socialistic program?

As for me, I don't think so.
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Post 01 Feb 2016, 9:18 am

rickyp wrote:Fate
But, here's what we know: even if you were an American, you would not have served


I know your a bitter angry old man, but your disdain for all things not American also reflects your ignorance .


I've got $500 that says you won't say that to my face. I'll fly you down here - - unless you're afraid of an "old man."

The WWI and WWII experiences of other nations was actually far more wrenching than that of the US. 1 of 11 Canadians served in either the Merchant Marine or the Armed forces in WWI. While Canadians died in Ypres, Americans were sitting at home, till April 1917.


So what?

By the end of WWII , (which started in September 1939 for Canada, but not till December 1941 for the US) had the world's fourth largest air force, and third largest navy.
And by the way, the one country that was indispensable in defeating Nazi Germany was Russia. The case has been made by many historians that it was largely defeat by the Russians that brought about the end of Hitler...


Without the US, Nazi Germany would have won the war. Without Canada, the war would have lasted another week.

When shall I book your flight?
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Post 01 Feb 2016, 9:34 am

Fate:
Without the US, Nazi Germany would have won the war.
Makes for very interesting counterfactual history ... not to mention one of the all time best Star Trek episodes.
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Post 01 Feb 2016, 9:42 am

Doctor Fate wrote:
rickyp wrote:Fate
But, here's what we know: even if you were an American, you would not have served


I know your a bitter angry old man, but your disdain for all things not American also reflects your ignorance .



Interesting question? RickyP, would you serve in the Canadian or US military?
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Post 01 Feb 2016, 9:45 am

Ray Jay wrote:Fate:
Without the US, Nazi Germany would have won the war.
Makes for very interesting counterfactual history ... not to mention one of the all time best Star Trek episodes.


Scary one.

Without a credible threat to the Western Front and without Lend/Lease, Germany could have pulled it off.

Now, I'm thankful the US got involved. It was the right thing to do and should have happened earlier. But, we Americans often like to think we can retreat from the World stage and suffer no consequences.
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Post 01 Feb 2016, 10:44 am

Ricky:
By the end of WWII , (which started in September 1939 for Canada, but not till December 1941 for the US) had the world's fourth largest air force, and third largest navy.


Shout out to Canada and those Canadians who fought for freedom even before it was absurdly obvious that one should do so.

Fate:
Now, I'm thankful the US got involved. It was the right thing to do and should have happened earlier. But, we Americans often like to think we can retreat from the World stage and suffer no consequences.
Yes.
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Post 01 Feb 2016, 12:51 pm

bbauska
As for me, I don't think so.

I think most social welfare spending is part way down the spectrum towards socialism, but only slightly.
So you don't think medicare or social security or welfare are socialist?
Why not?
Is the ACA socialist?
How about any of the the 74 programs I listed before?
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Post 01 Feb 2016, 1:23 pm

rickyp wrote:Fate
Were they lazy when they were getting screamed at in boot camp?

You said that socialism made people lazy.
The GI Bill is a socialist program. However it came after the GIs returned home... So since you did take the time to attempt to answer about the GI Bill, but apparently have a misconception about its timing, I'll give you another chance. How did the GI Bill make returning white GIs lazy?

bbauska wrote:I am still trying to understand what RickyP means about socialism. Is any government program that "redistributes" wealth from one to another a socialistic program?


What is socialism in your opinion? You say the GI bill is socialism. What is the definition of Socialism in your opinion?

Welfare (social redistribution, unless the recipient works for the benefits)
Social Security (If you get your money back that you paid in, no. If you have not paid into the SS system, but you receive benefits, then it is social redistribution)
ACA - Not socialism, but forced entrance into a program unless you accept penalties

As for the 74... Perhaps you could answer a question or two of mine, and I can try to find the time to repay the courtesy...