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Post 06 Jun 2018, 8:21 am

Tell who you like the most as a political person, and the reason why.

Try to avoid listing why you don't like another, but list the positives of a person.
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Post 06 Jun 2018, 8:48 am

Why don't you start?
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Post 06 Jun 2018, 8:52 am

Personally, I have always liked Andrew Jackson. He was a military man and was not from aristocracy, He was also very focused on honor.

Positives
Balance budget advocate
Unionist
Minimal Federal Government advocate
Strong leader
Tough as hell

I was typing, George. Also had to get coffee( and that is the MOST important!).
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Post 07 Jun 2018, 8:31 am

geojanes wrote:Why don't you start?


And you, George? Perhaps one of the denizens from other countries would like to input?
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Post 08 Jun 2018, 9:07 am

bbauska wrote:
geojanes wrote:Why don't you start?


And you, George? Perhaps one of the denizens from other countries would like to input?


I've always been a huge fan a Thomas Jefferson. Brilliant, principled, yet willing to be pragmatic when he had to be. If you've ever read about the decision to purchase the Louisiana Territory from the French, it was wonderful. In short, he believed it violated the constitution and his own personal beliefs, yet he did it anyway because he recognized how important it was for the nation. It's those rare situations where greatness is shown.
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Post 08 Jun 2018, 10:06 am

geo
Brilliant, principled, yet willing to be pragmatic when he had to be.

How d you feel about his being a slaveholder, and trading slaves?

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/ ... -35976004/

The Virginia abolitionist Moncure Conway, noting Jefferson’s enduring reputation as a would-be emancipator, remarked scornfully, “Never did a man achieve more fame for what he did not do.”


Evaluating historical figures with today's standards ad mores may seem unfair. But Jefferson is the man who's language in the Constitution is revered, but who did not personally live up to his own ideal.
Does that in any way modify your admiration?
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Post 08 Jun 2018, 10:16 am

bbauska
Personally, I have always liked Andrew Jackson. He was a military man and was not from aristocracy, He was also very focused on honor.

Then there's another view of the man...
Andrew Jackson was a slaver, ethnic cleanser, and tyrant.

https://www.vox.com/2016/4/20/11469514/ ... an-removal

Jefferson viewed from today, is a mixed bag.
Jackson?
Besides the problems with his morality, he was instrumental in creating a terrible economic depression.

Venerating historical figures is difficult.. But Jackson, had little to recommend.
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Post 08 Jun 2018, 10:21 am

Pierre Elliot Trudeau
In 1961, he joined the staff of the University of Montreal as a professor of constitutional law. Four years later, Liberal Party leaders were searching for potential candidates. Trudeau and two of his colleagues were invited to run for party seats. All three men won in the election that year; Trudeau became Minister of Justice. His flamboyant and charismatic personality meshed well with the changing attitudes and opinions of the late 1960s. Within a year, he had reformed the divorce laws and liberalized the laws on abortion and homosexuality.
When Canada’s then prime minister, Lester Pearson, retired in 1967, Trudeau campaigned for leadership of the Liberal Party. His ideas were popular, and on April 6, 1968, he won the post. His election as prime minister benefited from an unprecedented wave of youth involvement. “Trudeaumania,” as it was called, was the nickname given to the excitement brought on by throngs of teenagers who supported Trudeau. Within 20 days of winning leadership of his party, Trudeau was sworn in as Canada’s 15th prime minister..
His time in office started off with a bang. As soon as he was elected, he began fighting for universal health care. He also worked to reform governmental caucus meetings to make them more efficient. The 1970 “October Crisis” tested his stance against terrorists; he invoked the War Measures Act, giving the government overarching power to arrest without trial. On domestic matters, he championed the official implementation of bilingualism. Perhaps the two most significant events that occurred during Trudeau’s governance were the referendum on Quebec’s sovereignty, for which Trudeau fought and won to keep Quebec part of Canada, and Canada’s patriation from Great Britain. In 1981, the Canadian House of Commons approved Trudeau’s reform to officially and completely separate Canada from Queen Elizabeth II’s Britain. This monumental act brought about new and widespread civil rights for all Canadians.

He also brought in a national energy policy which was somewhat ill conceived and alienated Alberta for decades..... And he didn't have much a national economic strategy. But still...
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Post 08 Jun 2018, 10:35 am

rickyp wrote:Evaluating historical figures with today's standards ad mores may seem unfair. But Jefferson is the man who's language in the Constitution is revered, but who did not personally live up to his own ideal. Does that in any way modify your admiration?


It's a fair criticism.

For me, I think people should play by the rules. And if you make the rules, you should make good ones that you want to live by. I don't think that Jefferson was a advocate for slavery, and understood that it was wrong, yet it was legal, and necessary for his plantation lifestyle so he participated in it. It's completely consistent with his complexity.

If Jefferson was alive in 1861 what would he have done? Do you think he would have joined the confederacy? Or do you think he would have stayed with the Union? I expect that he would have wanted to stay with the Union.
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Post 09 Jun 2018, 5:16 am

I don't know if I can pick just one, but one of these two.

Aneurin Bevin, Heath Minister who set up the NHS.

John Lilbourne, Leveller leader who opposed both Charles I and then Cromwell
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Post 09 Jun 2018, 5:40 am

In terms of the political figure in my lifetime that I most admire, it's definitely Nelson Mandela.

Among American leaders, I'll go with the easy choice of Abraham Lincoln. I am also an admirer of Jefferson, but the slavery thing does hurt him.

Among leaders with absolute or near absolute power, my choice is Augustus Caesar.
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Post 09 Jun 2018, 12:12 pm

Among American leaders, I'll go with the easy choice of Abraham Lincoln

Agree.

The most underrated American President? Lyndon Johnson.
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Post 11 Jun 2018, 6:48 am

King of Swords wrote:In terms of the political figure in my lifetime that I most admire, it's definitely Nelson Mandela.


Absolutely true. What Nelson Mandela did is head and shoulders above all others. I shouldn't have been so USA biased.
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Post 11 Jun 2018, 6:49 am

rickyp wrote:The most underrated American President? Lyndon Johnson.


Agreed, but Vietnam is to Johnson is what slavery is to Jefferson.
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Post 11 Jun 2018, 10:09 am

Yeah, I'll go with Lincoln (and it's not just because he was a lawyer!):

(1) Keen, analytical mind honed by thousands of cases;
(2) Rose from no social status to become president based on sheer ability, hard work and ambition;
(3) Brilliant writer; see Gettysburg Address, Emancipation Proclamation for examples. Also that letter to a grieving widow that was read in Saving Private Ryan. Brilliant.
(4) Talented orator; See Lincoln Debates and Cooper Union Speech
(5) Taught himself military strategy and understood (better than most if not almost all of his generals) that the South had to be attacked at many places at once so they could not shift their armies based on an advantage in having interior lines; this all came together in 1864 when he finally had the General--Grant--who would carry out his strategy;
(6) Saved the country from fragmenting into two separate and much weaker countries. The challenge of defeating the South was enormous.
(7) Freed the slaves. Was instrumental in getting the 13th Amendment passed.
(8) Tremendously self-assured. Confident in his abilities but did not have an over-sizeded ego. Included in his cabinet people who had just run against him for president. When McClellan was rude to him and would not deign to meet with him, said he would hold McClellan's horse if it would bring him victories
(9) Supported the Trans-continental Railroad that helped settle the West;
(10) Provided funding for land grant colleges, many of which are in existence today (e.g. Texas A&M).
(11) Empathetic