Join In On The Action "Register Here" To View The Forums

Already a Member Login Here

Board index Forum Index
User avatar
Adjutant
 
Posts: 3030
Joined: 17 May 2013, 3:32 pm

Post 17 Jan 2018, 1:55 pm

I think the sewage was coming out of Trump's mouth. You just don't talk about people that way. He did not make those delineations with regard to Haitians you are making.

I just think at the end of the day this merit based system is sort of hidden racism. "We cant have Haitians because they are not engineers or doctors or software programmers." Yeah, but maybe their sons and daughters will be. I am more sympathetic to the idea of not allowing chain migration for people past a certain age. Allowing grandma and grandpa to come other and eventually get social services...when they have never paid taxes...seems crazy to me. Otherwise, I don't like this shift to favoring Asian and European immigrants over other regions.
User avatar
Dignitary
 
Posts: 3202
Joined: 02 Oct 2000, 9:01 am

Post 17 Jan 2018, 2:15 pm

Doctor Fate wrote:
geojanes wrote:Does it really matter if it's the result of a plan or just the outcome of Trump? The result is the same. The near daily scandals have been drowning out a pretty effective policy agenda.


Near-daily? You have a unique, I will even dare to say, "liberal" view of the word "scandal." He's gruff. He's impolitic.

Scandal?

Because he said some countries are poorly-run places no one wants to live?


I wasn't even counting that as a scandal. Certainly not great diplomacy, but not a scandal. I thought Rand Paul did a great job explaining Trump's impolitic language on Meet the Press on Sunday.

No, I was thinking about his pursuing the porn star and paying her off. I'm sure it will be forgotten (overwritten?) by another scandal next week.
User avatar
Administrator
 
Posts: 6795
Joined: 26 Jun 2000, 1:13 pm

Post 17 Jan 2018, 2:38 pm

freeman3 wrote:I think the sewage was coming out of Trump's mouth. You just don't talk about people that way. He did not make those delineations with regard to Haitians you are making.

I just think at the end of the day this merit based system is sort of hidden racism. "We cant have Haitians because they are not engineers or doctors or software programmers." Yeah, but maybe their sons and daughters will be. I am more sympathetic to the idea of not allowing chain migration for people past a certain age. Allowing grandma and grandpa to come other and eventually get social services...when they have never paid taxes...seems crazy to me. Otherwise, I don't like this shift to favoring Asian and European immigrants over other regions.


Maybe? Perhaps they will be drug dealers or pedophiles. If you qualify, great... If not, you should not be allowed in.

Are you advocating full and unfettered immigration, just because the progeny of someone might be the next Mozart? Really?

As for his ill-usage of that term, I think it is unpresidential. I don't recall anyone griping about LBJ however.
User avatar
Ambassador
 
Posts: 21061
Joined: 15 Jun 2002, 6:53 am

Post 17 Jan 2018, 3:40 pm

freeman3 wrote:You know Tucker Carlson said the same thing you guys did. Here's the problem: Trump essentially said he doesn't want people from Haiti because they come from a shithole country. So essentially he is saying the people are garbage too. Spin that.


No spin needed. He never said what you said he "essentially" said.

I wish we had a recording. Do you know Durbin's record of making stuff up? Even if part of what he says is true, I'm confident he put it in the worst-possible light.

Why? Because Democrats are so desperate for a "DACA-only" bill that they will do anything, and Durbin is about as committed to the "mob" as anyone.

I think we all know it's not where you come from, but your talent and willingness to work hard. No one has any evidence that Trump holds a view different than that.
User avatar
Ambassador
 
Posts: 21061
Joined: 15 Jun 2002, 6:53 am

Post 17 Jan 2018, 3:43 pm

geojanes wrote:
Doctor Fate wrote:
geojanes wrote:Does it really matter if it's the result of a plan or just the outcome of Trump? The result is the same. The near daily scandals have been drowning out a pretty effective policy agenda.


Near-daily? You have a unique, I will even dare to say, "liberal" view of the word "scandal." He's gruff. He's impolitic.

Scandal?

Because he said some countries are poorly-run places no one wants to live?


I wasn't even counting that as a scandal. Certainly not great diplomacy, but not a scandal. I thought Rand Paul did a great job explaining Trump's impolitic language on Meet the Press on Sunday.

No, I was thinking about his pursuing the porn star and paying her off. I'm sure it will be forgotten (overwritten?) by another scandal next week.


Bad sources so far.

And, sorry, Bill Clinton normalized extra-marital affairs.

Character is no longer a qualification for President. Neither is achievement. Neither is ability.

In fact, I'm not going to be surprised if we end up with Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson against Trump in 2020.

Our system needs an enema.
User avatar
Ambassador
 
Posts: 21061
Joined: 15 Jun 2002, 6:53 am

Post 17 Jan 2018, 3:45 pm

bbauska wrote: I don't recall anyone griping about LBJ however.


Because no one had the guts to come out and rat him out publicly.
User avatar
Adjutant
 
Posts: 3030
Joined: 17 May 2013, 3:32 pm

Post 17 Jan 2018, 3:55 pm

Lindsay Graham responded to Trump and said his family came from a "shithole" country...so I am pretty sure that what Durbin said was accurate.
User avatar
Ambassador
 
Posts: 21061
Joined: 15 Jun 2002, 6:53 am

Post 17 Jan 2018, 4:00 pm

freeman3 wrote:Lindsay Graham responded to Trump and said his family came from a "shithole" country...so I am pretty sure that what Durbin said was accurate.


Context is everything. We have none.

Durbin told reporters that what Trump said was "hate-filled, vile and racist," adding that "the most disheartening thing to me is my belief that that was the first time words that hateful had been spoken in the Oval Office of the White House."

There's just one problem with Durbin's claims: He has a history of making up statements from private White House meetings.

In 2013, Politico reported:

“In a ‘negotiation’ meeting with the president, one GOP House Leader told [President Barack Obama]: ‘I cannot even stand to look at you,’” Durbin wrote in a post on his Facebook page over the weekend.

However, both the White House and the House speaker’s office denied Durbin’s account of events.

Asked about the post in the White House daily briefing, press secretary Jay Carney said he checked with a participant of the meeting in question.

“I looked into this and spoke with somebody who was in that meeting and it did not happen,” Carney said.

Politico added that Durbin's office "had no comment on the post and offered no further details."


One can point out some countries are really bad and not be a "racist." I'm not willing to let Durbin decide that for me. You can do whatever you'd like with the words of a demonstrable liar.
User avatar
Adjutant
 
Posts: 3030
Joined: 17 May 2013, 3:32 pm

Post 17 Jan 2018, 4:10 pm

So Lindsay Graham is lying, too?
User avatar
Ambassador
 
Posts: 21061
Joined: 15 Jun 2002, 6:53 am

Post 17 Jan 2018, 4:17 pm

freeman3 wrote:So Lindsay Graham is lying, too?


Did Graham say Trump's words were ""hate-filled, vile and racist?"

And, is El Salvador a hellhole? Haiti?

If not, why not?

Consider the cognitive dissonance: Democrats are up in arms that Trump would end "temporary" shelter for El Salvadorans that dates back to 2001. It's "wrong" to send them back to El Salvador! And, it's also wrong to say El Salvador is a *hellhole.*

What? It's either a miserable place to live or it's not. Which is it?
User avatar
Statesman
 
Posts: 10951
Joined: 15 Aug 2000, 8:59 am

Post 18 Jan 2018, 9:12 am

Following comments by the President, I said my piece directly to him yesterday. The President and all those attending the meeting know what I said and how I feel. I’ve always believed that America is an idea, not defined by its people but by its ideals.
The American ideal is embraced by people all over the globe. It was best said a long time ago, E Pluribus Unum – Out of Many, One. Diversity has always been our strength, not our weakness. In reforming immigration we cannot lose these American Ideals.
The American people will ultimately judge us on the outcome we achieve, not the process which led to it.
I know the bipartisan proposal discussed at the White House can get a lot of support from both sides. As always, I look forward to considering additional ideas that could make the proposal even better.
I appreciate Senator Durbin’s statements and have enjoyed working with him and many others on this important issue. I believe it is vitally important to come to a bipartisan solution to the immigration and border challenges we face today. I am committed to working with Republicans and Democrats to find common ground so we can move forward.

Lyndsey Graham

South Carolina’s junior senator, Republican Tim Scott, was not at the meeting, but he told the Post and Courier that he spoke to Graham about media reports of Trump’s use of the term “shitholes.” Scott said that Graham told him the media reports were “basically accurate,” according to the Post and Courier, without elaborating on what Graham specifically told him.
4
https://www.factcheck.org/2018/01/trump ... n-meeting/
User avatar
Ambassador
 
Posts: 21061
Joined: 15 Jun 2002, 6:53 am

Post 18 Jan 2018, 9:32 am

rickyp wrote:
Following comments by the President, I said my piece directly to him yesterday. The President and all those attending the meeting know what I said and how I feel. I’ve always believed that America is an idea, not defined by its people but by its ideals.
The American ideal is embraced by people all over the globe. It was best said a long time ago, E Pluribus Unum – Out of Many, One. Diversity has always been our strength, not our weakness. In reforming immigration we cannot lose these American Ideals.
The American people will ultimately judge us on the outcome we achieve, not the process which led to it.
I know the bipartisan proposal discussed at the White House can get a lot of support from both sides. As always, I look forward to considering additional ideas that could make the proposal even better.
I appreciate Senator Durbin’s statements and have enjoyed working with him and many others on this important issue. I believe it is vitally important to come to a bipartisan solution to the immigration and border challenges we face today. I am committed to working with Republicans and Democrats to find common ground so we can move forward.

Lyndsey Graham

South Carolina’s junior senator, Republican Tim Scott, was not at the meeting, but he told the Post and Courier that he spoke to Graham about media reports of Trump’s use of the term “shitholes.” Scott said that Graham told him the media reports were “basically accurate,” according to the Post and Courier, without elaborating on what Graham specifically told him.
4
https://www.factcheck.org/2018/01/trump ... n-meeting/

Thank you for clarifying that Graham did not say Trump used "hate-filled, vile and racist" language.
User avatar
Ambassador
 
Posts: 15952
Joined: 15 Apr 2004, 6:29 am

Post 18 Jan 2018, 2:37 pm

bbauska wrote:
freeman3 wrote:I think the sewage was coming out of Trump's mouth. You just don't talk about people that way. He did not make those delineations with regard to Haitians you are making.

I just think at the end of the day this merit based system is sort of hidden racism. "We cant have Haitians because they are not engineers or doctors or software programmers." Yeah, but maybe their sons and daughters will be. I am more sympathetic to the idea of not allowing chain migration for people past a certain age. Allowing grandma and grandpa to come other and eventually get social services...when they have never paid taxes...seems crazy to me. Otherwise, I don't like this shift to favoring Asian and European immigrants over other regions.


Maybe? Perhaps they will be drug dealers or pedophiles. If you qualify, great... If not, you should not be allowed in.
Norwegians could be drug dealers or paedophiles. On that second one, do you have any evidence for paedophilia being more prevalent among one particular type of immigrant to the US over another? Or even it being more prevalant than among natives? If not, why bring it up?
User avatar
Statesman
 
Posts: 10951
Joined: 15 Aug 2000, 8:59 am

Post 18 Jan 2018, 2:50 pm

Fate
Thank you for clarifying that Graham did not say Trump used "hate-filled, vile and racist" language

He said the media reporting was
basically accurate.


and he said

I appreciate Senator Durbin’s statements and have enjoyed working with him and many others on this important issue

This is an endorsement of Durbin.
User avatar
Ambassador
 
Posts: 21061
Joined: 15 Jun 2002, 6:53 am

Post 18 Jan 2018, 3:40 pm

rickyp wrote:Fate
Thank you for clarifying that Graham did not say Trump used "hate-filled, vile and racist" language

He said the media reporting was
basically accurate.


That does not mean he accepts Durbin's characterization.

and he said

I appreciate Senator Durbin’s statements and have enjoyed working with him and many others on this important issue

This is an endorsement of Durbin.


Again, please let me know when he agreed that Trump used "hate-filled, vile and racist" language, especially since Graham has used similar language.

South Carolina Republican Sen. Lindsey Graham called Mexico and other Latin American nations “hellholes” in a 2013 debate with the Senate Judiciary Committee.

The old comments came back to light as Graham blasted President Donald Trump after he reportedly used the term “shithole” to describe Haiti and El Salvador during a bipartisan immigration sit down Thursday. Although Trump has denied using the word, he has continued to face widespread criticism among from Democratic lawmakers and pundits quick to label the remark as “racist.”

In the 2013 debate Graham said people who are coming into the U.S. across the southern border live in “hellholes” and said the U.S. cannot accept everyone who lives in a “hellhole” as a citizen.


http://dailycaller.com/2018/01/14/flash ... les-video/

So, is Graham a more elite racist?