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Post 27 Jan 2018, 6:21 am

Doctor Fate wrote:What I find very questionable is the idea that mothers and fathers leave their children in places where they are endangered or impoverished, while they steal into the land of milk and honey. I wouldn't do it and I doubt many would.
You don't have to think about whether you would do it, as you live in the USA.

Chain migration is based on the initial immigrant being LEGAL, so you are conflating two different topics (but yeah, illegal immigration is a good red button for you conservatives to reach for). And few are refugees, either - it's often normal legal migration like green cards.

This is not the same as the DACA children, who generally came over illegally (as children) and whose parents usually did too.

Often what happens in chain migration is one parent comes over, not both. If both do, then extended family is often acting as guardians in the meantime.
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Post 27 Jan 2018, 7:12 am

Fate
The question is whether we need "chain migration" wherein one person is able to drag every single limb of their family, distant or not, into the US. If you want to let everyone on the planet into Canada, feel free.

No. The question is whether or not Chain migration (familiy reunification) actually has the effects you and others claim.

In fact, back in 1988, the federal agency then known as the General Accounting Office found that the immigration system’s waiting lists make chain migration a theory that doesn’t really happen in practice. This is because each link in the chain takes years—and sometimes decades—to complete. Bluntly put, America isn’t being overrun by Chinese- and Mexican-born grandmas.
The GAO made this judgment because, back in the late ’80s, the waiting list for a typical family visa was six to 12 years, depending on the country. Now those waiting lists are much longer. It takes five years for your Chinese spouse to become a U.S. citizen and petition for his sister. The family visa system is badly backlogged; the U.S. is currently processing sibling visa requests for China that were filed in 2004, making the total wait for a visa just shy of two decades. For Mexico and the Philippines, the total wait now exceeds 25 years.
Chain migration, put another way, is a myth—it takes too long for a chain to form.


https://www.thedailybeast.com/
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Post 27 Jan 2018, 12:05 pm

danivon wrote:
Doctor Fate wrote:What I find very questionable is the idea that mothers and fathers leave their children in places where they are endangered or impoverished, while they steal into the land of milk and honey. I wouldn't do it and I doubt many would.
You don't have to think about whether you would do it, as you live in the USA.

Chain migration is based on the initial immigrant being LEGAL, so you are conflating two different topics (but yeah, illegal immigration is a good red button for you conservatives to reach for). And few are refugees, either - it's often normal legal migration like green cards.

This is not the same as the DACA children, who generally came over illegally (as children) and whose parents usually did too.

Often what happens in chain migration is one parent comes over, not both. If both do, then extended family is often acting as guardians in the meantime.


No, I'm not "conflating" them. Chain migration based on ILLEGAL immigration would be a bizarre concept.

The Trump plan, apparently, will promote "nuclear family" migration. That is as it should be.
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Post 27 Jan 2018, 12:06 pm

rickyp wrote:Womp womp womp


Meh.
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Post 01 Feb 2018, 4:34 am

Doctor Fate wrote:
danivon wrote:
Doctor Fate wrote:What I find very questionable is the idea that mothers and fathers leave their children in places where they are endangered or impoverished, while they steal into the land of milk and honey. I wouldn't do it and I doubt many would.
You don't have to think about whether you would do it, as you live in the USA.

Chain migration is based on the initial immigrant being LEGAL, so you are conflating two different topics (but yeah, illegal immigration is a good red button for you conservatives to reach for). And few are refugees, either - it's often normal legal migration like green cards.

This is not the same as the DACA children, who generally came over illegally (as children) and whose parents usually did too.

Often what happens in chain migration is one parent comes over, not both. If both do, then extended family is often acting as guardians in the meantime.


No, I'm not "conflating" them. Chain migration based on ILLEGAL immigration would be a bizarre concept.
So why use the phrase "steal into the land of milk and honey" in the context of chain migration?

Because that looks a lot like conflating them in order to further the hyperbole.

The Trump plan, apparently, will promote "nuclear family" migration. That is as it should be.
Is it? Don't you also want young, single, ambitious immigrants?
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Post 01 Feb 2018, 7:57 am

danivon wrote:
Doctor Fate wrote:
danivon wrote:
Doctor Fate wrote:What I find very questionable is the idea that mothers and fathers leave their children in places where they are endangered or impoverished, while they steal into the land of milk and honey. I wouldn't do it and I doubt many would.
You don't have to think about whether you would do it, as you live in the USA.

Chain migration is based on the initial immigrant being LEGAL, so you are conflating two different topics (but yeah, illegal immigration is a good red button for you conservatives to reach for). And few are refugees, either - it's often normal legal migration like green cards.

This is not the same as the DACA children, who generally came over illegally (as children) and whose parents usually did too.

Often what happens in chain migration is one parent comes over, not both. If both do, then extended family is often acting as guardians in the meantime.


No, I'm not "conflating" them. Chain migration based on ILLEGAL immigration would be a bizarre concept.
So why use the phrase "steal into the land of milk and honey" in the context of chain migration?

Because that looks a lot like conflating them in order to further the hyperbole.

The Trump plan, apparently, will promote "nuclear family" migration. That is as it should be.
Is it? Don't you also want young, single, ambitious immigrants?

Seriously? Rough morning, eh?

Because the concept of DACA is that the children will get legalized. Some then want the parents to be legalized. So, the parents will be rewarded for breaking the law intentionally.

No one suggested young, single, ambitious immigrants would not be welcome.

Maybe get a nap or something?
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Post 01 Feb 2018, 8:56 am

I'm sick and tired of having Democrats/Socialists/open border folks complain that Trump is saying "every immigrant is a criminal" or "every immigrant is MS-13."

That's not what he said. And, if so, why is he offering to make 1.8 million criminal/gang members citizens?

You can't have it both ways--saying he's a racist, then complaining he's only willing to legalize 1.8 million Dreamers.

It's impossible to have a rational conversation if the reflex of the other side is to scream "Racist!" every time border security comes up.

What kind of party is against securing the border, preventing employers from employing illegal immigrants, and preventing illegal immigrants from utilizing resources in this country?

Democrats . . . and, some Republicans. It's a party we call "Statists." They love growing government and enjoy the perks their donors provide them to keep cheap labor flowing.

No, not all Dreamers are purple heart recipients, honor students, or creating wealth for Americans.

Xinran Ji, 24, had big dreams. But demons demolished them.

The bright hopes of young Xinran Ji, a University of Southern California engineering student from Inner Mongolia, died in 2014 at the hands of a then-19-year-old "Dreamer" and his thug pals. Mexican illegal alien Jonathan DelCarmen, who first jumped the southern border at age 12, pleaded guilty to second-degree murder last summer in the savage robbery and fatal beating of Ji — who was walking home from a study group after midnight.

No, it wasn't President Trump, ICE agents, Republicans or conservative talk show hosts who racially profiled Xinran Ji. It was "Dreamer" DelCarmen and his partners in crime: Alberto Ochoa, 17, Andrew Garcia, 18, and Alejandra Guerrero, 16. The gangsters targeted Ji because he was Asian and assumed he "must have money." Guerrero had sent Facebook messages about wanting to "flock" (rob) white and Chinese people. Off-campus neighborhoods around USC are dominated by Mexican Mafia affiliates that target foreign students and shake down local businesses owned by law-abiding immigrants.

"Dreamer" DelCarmen and his friends stalked Ji on a street corner in south central L.A. before bashing him in the head with a baseball bat and a wrench. The attack was caught on multiple security cameras. Ji managed to stagger home to his apartment, leaving a quarter-mile trail of blood behind him.

Sometime during the night, Xinran Ji died in his bed. And the aspirations of his family, who sacrificed everything to send him to America to pursue his studies, perished with him.

"Dreamer" DelCarmen and his friends drove off to a nearby beach to rob two more innocent people in a city and state that have defiantly declared themselves "sanctuaries" for people in the United States illegally — not for the best and brightest like Xinran Ji, but for lawless barbarians like Jonathan DelCarmen.

"It's like heaven fell down," Ji's father told Los Angeles County Superior Court Judge George Lomeli at Garcia's sentencing hearing.

"His life was taken by these demons," Ji's aunt added. "They robbed and killed an innocent youth with very vicious means, and this was inhuman."

Garcia received life in prison without the possibility of parole. Ji's parents' sentence was far worse: a brutal, violent and permanent separation from their only child. In Washington, D.C., however, some families matter more than others. And victims of indiscriminate open borders, like Xinran Ji, don't exist.


And, not all illegal immigrants are murderers, rapists, and robbers. However, just being here doesn't make them "good" either.

1. Stop the flow of illegal immigration permanently (not just note it is down right now).
2. Prevent the hiring of illegals.
3. Evaluate those who are here. Deport criminals and those who are making no/little effort to get ahead.
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Post 01 Feb 2018, 9:16 am

Did anyone else find this part of the SOTU surreal?

https://www.aol.com/article/news/2018/0 ... /23348456/

Please explain.
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Post 01 Feb 2018, 10:06 am

I am guessing black congressman don't attribute black unemployment being so low due to anything Trump has done. Also Trump has been racially divisive. I would have been shocked if they had clapped, given that doing so would have meant that they were assenting to Trump claiming credit for it.
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Post 01 Feb 2018, 11:13 am

freeman3 wrote:I am guessing black congressman don't attribute black unemployment being so low due to anything Trump has done. Also Trump has been racially divisive. I would have been shocked if they had clapped, given that doing so would have meant that they were assenting to Trump claiming credit for it.


Did he say, "Thanks to me, Black unemployment is at an historic low?" Let's see:

So let us begin tonight by recognizing that the state of our Union is strong because our people are strong.

And together, we are building a safe, strong, and proud America.

Since the election, we have created 2.4 million new jobs, including 200,000 new jobs in manufacturing alone. After years of wage stagnation, we are finally seeing rising wages.
Unemployment claims have hit a 45-year low. African-American unemployment stands at the lowest rate ever recorded, and Hispanic American unemployment has also reached the lowest levels in history.


Sorry, there is something wrong with those who cannot stand and applaud that. It's essentially rooting for Americans of all colors to suffer.
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Post 01 Feb 2018, 12:36 pm

Not seeing it. There is nothing wrong with a black congressmen refusing to applaud Trunp for supposedly lowering black unemployment. It's not refusing to be happy that black employment is low because Trump is president.

Now if Trump was talking about a program targeting black Americans that had a positive impact that he did that would be different.
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Post 01 Feb 2018, 1:33 pm

freeman3 wrote:Not seeing it. There is nothing wrong with a black congressmen refusing to applaud Trunp for supposedly lowering black unemployment. It's not refusing to be happy that black employment is low because Trump is president.

Now if Trump was talking about a program targeting black Americans that had a positive impact that he did that would be different.


He didn't ask for credit. He simply made a statement.
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Post 01 Feb 2018, 1:48 pm

freeman3 wrote:Not seeing it. There is nothing wrong with a black congressmen refusing to applaud Trunp for supposedly lowering black unemployment. It's not refusing to be happy that black employment is low because Trump is president.


Freudian slip? Black employment is at its highest ever.

Now if Trump was talking about a program targeting black Americans that had a positive impact that he did that would be different.


I suppose you aren't counting regulatory restraint and tax cuts because they target all Americans.
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Post 01 Feb 2018, 3:42 pm

Black unemployment being low is a very good thing. But it came down a lot under Obama, too. Must black congressman accept your interpretation that Trump's policies are responsible for the further improvement? And he clearly intended listed it as something he should be given credit for.

So...you are going to judge black congressman...whose views are antithetical to Trump's...for not giviing credit to Trump--by clapping or otherwise signaling that they approve of what Trump has done to lower black unemployment-- when the causality of why it is lower right now is clearly up for debate? And when Trump has clearly acted and said offensive ways to non-whites?

I just don't see the reasoning here. I don't count regulatory restraint and budget cuts because it's unclear that they are causing black unemployment to go down. The moral obligation to thank Trump would clearly be different if Trump had gone out of his way to help black people. There is no moral obligation to thank Trump for lower black unemployment..when it is not clear that he is in fact responsible for it.
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Post 01 Feb 2018, 4:01 pm

freeman3 wrote:There is no moral obligation to thank Trump for lower black unemployment..when it is not clear that he is in fact responsible for it.


Is it "thanking Trump" to acknowledge the numbers? Did he claim personal credit?

Honestly, Democrats have lost their minds--the hard left that is. I have no love for Trump, but he's not a racist. He's not trying to "make America white again" as Pelosi said.

The rhetoric is nuts.

Another example: all the cheering for Hillary reading Wolff's book at the Grammys. Anyone with an IQ of room temperature knows by now that Wolff is a demonstrable liar. That book should be shunned, not celebrated. But, in Democratic World, Trump is so vile that anything can be used. The truth be damned.