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Emissary
 
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Post 06 Oct 2017, 5:10 pm

I walked into a Sam's Club last week to find all the Christmas decorations up already. I asked one of the staff about it and he told me they'd been up since mid September.

So I asked to speak to the manager to inquire if having their Christmas items out in September was a corporate decision or a local store decision. No one seemed to know.

I then proceeded to tell the store manager that it was offensive to me.

I asked if he set out menorahs for Hannukah or paints for Holi or Islamic garb for ramadan or candles for Sangha 4 months in advance. The answer was no of course. Then why put Christians through this nonsense? Just so you can meet your bottom line? It's an insult. Either treat all faith traditions equally or stop.

One of the staff members said that working at Sams has ruined his experience of Christmas. He agreed with me that setting up the Christmas schtick prior to Thanksgiving was an insult to Christians. He shared that by December he can't wait until the season is finally over. It means nothing to him given the commercialization.

I realize this may strike some of you here as petty. Given all the other problems in the world this one certainly pales, however, it really is offensive to me. And it really should stop.

The argument that this is predominantly a Christian country and therefor the marketing suggests that there is a market for said products is beside the point. I could care less what some marketing gurus say about the subject. You don't insult a faith tradition just because you can make money by doing so.

Rise up Christians of Redscape! Start bitching to store owners. You're all getting older with each passing day. Soon you'll be gone forever so live the stereotype of the crazy old person and, if you agree with me, tell a manager that it needs to stop or that there at least needs to be consistency so that all faith traditions' schtick is displayed for an equivalent time period prior to a festival or holiday.

Why bother with all of this ultimately? Because I have no control whatsoever to bare upon this @#$! up world and the nutters who bring hate and suffering to it. So calling someone out on the inconsistency of this practice and the reasons why it should stop presents me with the illusion that I have a voice.
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Statesman
 
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Post 08 Oct 2017, 8:17 am

You should start your campaign at the center of the madness...
Frankenmuth Michigan... the site of
Bronners Christmas Wonderland. 365 days a year, the Worlds Biggest Christmas Store. Seriously. People drive for miles for chickn dinners and the chance to buy Christmas decorations in April.

https://www.bronners.com/category/just- ... do_QmhSzIU

Businesses do this, because it makes economic sense. You'll have to organize an enormous number of people in some form of embargo to effect some change.
Perhaps a major demonstration at Bronners would be a great start for your CLM. (Christian Lives Matter)

Have you also considered that maybe most Christians aren't insulted by the early marketing of Christmas Dag?
Irritated perhaps? But fundamentally insulted? Maybe not so much. ?
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Adjutant
 
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Post 09 Oct 2017, 4:22 am

I admit it's annoying. But I'm not angry enough to give it the same amount of attention as other more pressing matters. And there are a lot of those.
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Adjutant
 
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Post 09 Oct 2017, 8:19 am

Are you kidding? Why would Christians complain? It sanctions their world-view. Their religion gets presented at Sam's Club 4 months of the year. Wal-Mart sells Christian books, too. A Christian cannot help but feel comfortable at Wal-Mart/Sam's Club given these subtle affirmations of their religion. And now rather than it being one month of the year...it's 4 months of the year!

And you're so used to the Christian religion being the "favored" religion that you get offended that it's being commercialized, not presented in its true light. I think there should be more concern that the public space contains affirmation of a particular religion that is beginning to get more pervasive. I'm an atheist...but I grew up Baptist so Christmas merchandising does not particularly bother me. But you seem to have a blind eye to the fact Dags that other religious adherents have more of a right to complain. Again...it doesn't bother me, maybe it doesn't bother adherents of other religions. But Christians have the least right to complain, it seems to me.
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Emissary
 
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Post 09 Oct 2017, 10:24 am

Freeman

Are you kidding?


No.

Why would Christians complain?


Already covered.

It sanctions their world-view.....


Yes it does. It sanctions the world view of Sam's corporate decision makers and share holders which is to increase the bottom line no matter what.

But you seem to have a blind eye to the fact Dags that other religious adherents have more of a right to complain


Hardly, it was one of my original points..

tell a manager that it needs to stop or that there at least needs to be consistency so that all faith traditions' schtick is displayed for an equivalent time period prior to a festival or holiday.



Rickyp:

Have you also considered that maybe most Christians aren't insulted by the early marketing of Christmas Dag?


Yes.

Bronner's Christmas Wonderland


Apples and oranges

Perhaps a major demonstration at Bronners would be a great start for your CLM. (Christian Lives Matter


I wouldn't want to risk anyone thinking the movement was violent and given your suggested name, that risk would far surpass any benefit.

Jim:

I admit it's annoying.


Curious. Why?

But I'm not angry enough to give it the same amount of attention as other more pressing matters.


I covered my take on this point. My anger goes beyond the surface of the thing.
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Adjutant
 
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Post 09 Oct 2017, 11:47 am

"I asked if he set out menorahs for Hannukah or paints for Holi or Islamic garb for ramadan or candles for Sangha 4 months in advance. The answer was no of course. Then why put Christians through this nonsense? Just so you can meet your bottom line? It's an insult. Either treat all faith traditions equally or stop."

That sounds like you are complaining that Christians are being singled out for mistreatment. Nowhere in your whole post do you mention that other religions would be offended.

It seems to me we would be better off if a lot of white males...would just chill. What the heck are they so angry about? And if they are going to be angry why are they not angry about our country's economic policies that are making life tough for many of them? If ain't that bad in this country...and it sure ain't that bad for Christians or white males.

You do have the option of going to a different store. And if you still prefer going to Sam's over getting offended...then I guess you have made a choice. There are plenty of stores that wait until Thanksgiving to put out Christmas decorations.
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Administrator
 
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Post 09 Oct 2017, 12:13 pm

Gee whiz, Freeman! I said the same thing about a homosexual couple going to another cake shop because of being offended, and you disagree. Perhaps you think only white males need to get over it? Sound discriminatory.

As for this issue, I wish stores would not have a "holiday" such as Halloween celebrated, but I don't picket stores over it. If I get offended, I just leave.

I do wish that Thanksgiving was celebrated more. The attitude of Thanksgiving is a very important one, and often missed in current times.
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Adjutant
 
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Post 09 Oct 2017, 2:16 pm

The difference Brad is that (1) There is not a history of Christians (and/or white males) getting discriminated against in this country, and (2) as a majority Christians (and/or white males) are going to be able to find stores that will sell them products so they are not shut out of the marketplace, and (3) because there is no history of discrimination then a Christian (or a white male) is not going to feel stigmatized. Gays face all three issues with regard to gay weddings, at least if we make it acceptable for businesses to refuse to sell anything related to gay weddings to them.

While we are all sort of "thrown" into this life we inherit a cultural history. And that history has ongoing effects into the present. If you do not realize the benefits of being white have had for you in this society...you are not paying attention.But the failure to realize this fact, and the failure to recognize the history favoring white Europeans...means that certain white American males feel put upon by the demand of other racial groups (or by women). By what measurement are white American males struggling in this society? And if that is so...where is all this anger coming from?
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Post 09 Oct 2017, 3:15 pm

Ahhh yes, great defense. The same act can be declared discrimination if done to one person, and not another.

But gays feel offended, you say. Apparently Dag does too. I disagree with your premise that their needs to be a history of discrimination for the basis of discrimination to be an articulatable offense.

Once again you do not want equality, you want special treatment.
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Adjutant
 
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Post 09 Oct 2017, 3:26 pm

Let me expound on that white favoritism. I am not talking about direct benefits due to being white. Or white and male. It's mainly because white males are given largely positive images of themselves by the media, by the fact they dominate the power positions in society (CEOs, top military, president, senators, religious leaders), and how are they treated positively by other members of society (teachers, peers, employers, etc). Other minority groups and women have gotten more negative images. These kinds get internalized on how people view themselves. This is why--in one famous example--in a study that was used in Brown v Board of Board of Education black girls liked white dolls. They had internalized that "white" was better. Asians still get their eyes done so they look more Caucasian. There are many such examples where white appearance or customs are preferred.

We cannot have ahistorical discussions about gays being excluded from buying wedding cakes or the Black Lives Matter movement; to be fair we should be conscious of past history and continuing effect of stereotypes--both positive and negative--on peoples' consciousness even as more overt forms of discrimination are disapproved of. What I tend to see from white male Republicans something like, well, it used to be bad, then MLK came along and things got fixed so everyone is equal and now minority groups are just whining when it's own their fault for their circumstances. I think the Truth is a lot more complex than that.

And Brad that is why your attempts to treat everyone the same while maybe might work if we started off at square one does not work in a society which always has a history that has to be assessed. A Christian who gets offended by Christmas decorations is simply not in the same position as gays not being allowed to buy a wedding cake. And that is due to the history of discrimination against gays and how the Christian baker sought to be allowed to put forth his negative views towards gays and how that gay couple felt stigmatized by it as part of what I'm sure was part a long line of negative reactions to their being gay.
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Administrator
 
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Post 09 Oct 2017, 3:56 pm

Your position is noted, and I disagree. One must treat all equally. One must try to treat all fairly, and with love.
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Ambassador
 
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Post 14 Oct 2017, 10:36 am

They can't win, can they? If they weren't selling Xmas items, it would be part of the "War On Christmas", and if they are it's "commercialising religion".

There are more important things to be offended about.
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Dignitary
 
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Post 17 Oct 2017, 12:38 pm

danivon wrote:There are more important things to be offended about.


Amen. I'm tempted to start talking about delicate snowflakes, but I won't.
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Administrator
 
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Post 17 Oct 2017, 1:00 pm

geojanes wrote:
danivon wrote:There are more important things to be offended about.


Amen. I'm tempted to start talking about delicate snowflakes, but I won't.


I thought we were...
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Ambassador
 
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Post 17 Oct 2017, 2:18 pm

geojanes wrote:
danivon wrote:There are more important things to be offended about.


Amen. I'm tempted to start talking about delicate snowflakes, but I won't.

It is an irony that quite often Conservatives and Christians, so quick to sneer at the "offended" on the liberal and secular side are just as fast to take offence and bleat about it publicly.

It seems to be a general human trait, to be honest.