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Adjutant
 
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Post 29 Jan 2018, 9:00 am

Seriously? Are they all profitable? That list represents 1 out of every 6,227 corporations. Put another way, 6,226 out of every 6,227 corporations have not given their employees anything as a result of the tax reform. An employee at a corporation might as well play the lottery. It's a pebble in the ocean...
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Post 29 Jan 2018, 9:13 am

so you want me to come up with a list of over one million corporations to counter Danivon's example of 1 or 2? And after I do that, you still wouldn't believe me anyway ...
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Post 29 Jan 2018, 9:28 am

freeman3 wrote:Seriously? Are they all profitable? That list represents 1 out of every 6,227 corporations. Put another way, 6,226 out of every 6,227 corporations have not given their employees anything as a result of the tax reform. An employee at a corporation might as well play the lottery. It's a pebble in the ocean...


Yes, yes, I know. “Crumbs.”
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Post 29 Jan 2018, 9:36 am

Ray Jay wrote:so you want me to come up with a list of over one million corporations to counter Danivon's example of 1 or 2? And after I do that, you still wouldn't believe me anyway ...


That’s the way it works.

Any news that might be positive for Trump has to be put on trial.

Liberal articles of faith:

1. Everyone must believe in AGCC or be ostracized.
2. Everyone must agree that anything Trump says, does, or touches is wrong, stupid, immoral, and/or illegal.
3. Everyone must agree “Dreamers” are the best part of America, even better than the best citizen.
4. Everyone must agree capitalism is evil, corporations are criminal enterprises, and only do the right thing at the point of the government gun.
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Post 29 Jan 2018, 9:59 am

Doctor Fate wrote:
Ray Jay wrote:so you want me to come up with a list of over one million corporations to counter Danivon's example of 1 or 2? And after I do that, you still wouldn't believe me anyway ...


That’s the way it works.

Any news that might be positive for Trump has to be put on trial.

Liberal articles of faith:

1. Everyone must believe in AGCC or be ostracized.
2. Everyone must agree that anything Trump says, does, or touches is wrong, stupid, immoral, and/or illegal.
3. Everyone must agree “Dreamers” are the best part of America, even better than the best citizen.
4. Everyone must agree capitalism is evil, corporations are criminal enterprises, and only do the right thing at the point of the government gun.


Another way to look at is that when any of us encounter information that doesn't agree with our world view, we

1. Figure out why it is mistaken, or
2. Figure out why it is anecdotal, but not representative, or
3. Figure out why it fails to see the bigger picture, or
4. Figure out why the source is biased to the point of not being trustworthy.

Whereas if we encounter information that agrees with our world view , we post it.

We all suffer from this ...
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Post 29 Jan 2018, 10:23 am

Ray Jay wrote:
Doctor Fate wrote:
Ray Jay wrote:so you want me to come up with a list of over one million corporations to counter Danivon's example of 1 or 2? And after I do that, you still wouldn't believe me anyway ...


That’s the way it works.

Any news that might be positive for Trump has to be put on trial.

Liberal articles of faith:

1. Everyone must believe in AGCC or be ostracized.
2. Everyone must agree that anything Trump says, does, or touches is wrong, stupid, immoral, and/or illegal.
3. Everyone must agree “Dreamers” are the best part of America, even better than the best citizen.
4. Everyone must agree capitalism is evil, corporations are criminal enterprises, and only do the right thing at the point of the government gun.


Another way to look at is that when any of us encounter information that doesn't agree with our world view, we

1. Figure out why it is mistaken, or
2. Figure out why it is anecdotal, but not representative, or
3. Figure out why it fails to see the bigger picture, or
4. Figure out why the source is biased to the point of not being trustworthy.

Whereas if we encounter information that agrees with our world view , we post it.

We all suffer from this ...

Oh, there is some truth to this, but I try to keep at least one foot in the “cynical” world.

Trying to limit this to only taxes/economy, I’m not sure how anyone can say things aren’t better than they were a year ago. Now, one may try to not credit Trump. However, things are clearly better, and corporations are doing things they were not doing before. Correlation may not be causation, but the liberals here have not presented a coherent reason for doubting it.
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Post 29 Jan 2018, 11:51 am

Several points: (1) Danivon's list was based on his observations whereas your list was from some anti-tax entity that has every motivation to scour the country for every possible corporation that purportedly did something for employees as a result of the tax reform, (2) I actually did not even quibble with the 273 figure, (3) Did I do anything unfair in analyzing the information?, (4) and are we not allowed to use our brains in analyzing it?.

As for DF, he is creating enough liberal strawmen to create a strawman army...
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Post 29 Jan 2018, 12:42 pm

RAYJAY
Ricky, this is cogent but way too broad a brush. One can argue that the S&L crisis and the Great Recession were the result of a lax regulatory environment, but one can also argue that they were the result of poor laws and regulatory missteps. For the S&L's they had outgrown their purpose, and instead of allowing them to die the federal government backstopped their questionable loans so they engaged in risky behavior. In the case of the Great Recession the housing requirements created by the feds are certainly part of the problem. We can agree that bad actors got off too easily. We can also agree that the US Gov't should have received a lot more of future profits from GS, etc. for bailing them out. On the flip side, enabling commercial and investment banks to be under the same roof was part of the solution, not the problem.


https://www.davemanuel.com/history-of-b ... states.php

Good regulation PREVENTS bank collapses. In 1930 1374 banks failed in the US. Then Glass Steagall came into being, and after a couple of years, bank failures became quite rare. Until 1986 to 1995...Thats was the very expensive S&L Crisis caused by: the Depository Institutions Deregulation and Monetary Control Act of 1980 and the Garn–St. Germain Depository Institutions Act of 1982. The deregulation not only allowed thrifts to offer a wider array of savings products (including adjustable rate mortgages, which fixed one important problem), but also significantly expanded their lending authority and reduced regulatory oversight.[
And then came 2008 ...

Every time financial institutions have lobbied for less regulation, they start risky behavior. Unfortunately the risk is generally held primarily by the tax payer...
I don't disagree with you about the nature of American regulation RAYJAY. Its generally looked upon as positively abusive by foreign businesses trying to do business in the US. And I do think the notion of ending two regulation for everyone written, is a simplistic, but perhaps useful policy. I believe it was conducted in the UK for a number of years.
I agree with you that regulation in the US is too complex. However, when regulation is co-opted by lobbyists, as it was for Wall Street and for the Oil Drilling Business in the years leading up to Deep Water Horizon the results have been disastrous.
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Post 29 Jan 2018, 1:03 pm

Rayjay
It appears that the ACA and raising taxes on the wealthy during the Obama years was a disaster for the poor.


Well, the ACA got a lot of people health insurance that they didn't have, and allowed some people to change employment that they had been trapped in because of "preexisting conditions" that forced the need to keep their insurance and therefore employer.
And no, the data does indeed show that only 1% have really gained since 2008. But Ray, you're ignoring the years from 82 through 2008, when the poor got poorer, the middle class struggled and the rich got richer...
The middle class in the US grew from 45 to 79.... Since then, increased prosperity hasn't been shared prosperity. And not just because of income but because the things that allow a poor or middle class family to move up were slowly but surely priced out of the market. Namely the cost of secondary education and health care.
When democratic socialist countries have far greater social mobility than the US, and they have for some time, its because those two elements are taken care of through general taxation.
So, the fact that for the first time in 20 years, incremental gains are being made - in part because of the new tax law (but mostly because of market conditions), its a big so what? If education and health care are priced out of the reach of much of the population - there's more fundamental problems...
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Post 29 Jan 2018, 1:04 pm

freeman3 wrote:Several points: (1) Danivon's list was based on his observations whereas your list was from some anti-tax entity that has every motivation to scour the country for every possible corporation that purportedly did something for employees as a result of the tax reform, (2) I actually did not even quibble with the 273 figure, (3) Did I do anything unfair in analyzing the information?, (4) and are we not allowed to use our brains in analyzing it?.

As for DF, he is creating enough liberal strawmen to create a strawman army...


Oh noes!

Actually, I doubt you could credibly dispute 1-3, and you would strain to dispute #4.
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Post 29 Jan 2018, 1:13 pm

Ricky talking about lobbyists got to me to thinking about campaign finance reform. So what if for elections for Congress and the presidency we leave existing rules for primaries with the EXCEPTION of having a third-party primary where any third-party candidate vies to be the third-party candidate. Then in the general election we assess the reasonable costs of running a campaign based on number of voters, historical costs of elections in that particular district, etc. Then the Republican, Democratic, and third-party candidate get that amount of public money and no more.

Never going to happen...but what if.
Last edited by freeman3 on 29 Jan 2018, 1:15 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Adjutant
 
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Post 29 Jan 2018, 1:14 pm

Actually, I don't think you could reasonably dispute 1-4 of my points.
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Post 29 Jan 2018, 3:19 pm

freeman3 wrote:Actually, I don't think you could reasonably dispute 1-4 of my points.


Who is you?

And, you're conceding, I take it, that mine were no men of straw.
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Post 29 Jan 2018, 3:34 pm

Your points would make...excellent kindling!
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Post 29 Jan 2018, 4:23 pm

freeman3 wrote:Your points would make...excellent kindling!


1. Everyone must believe in AGCC or be ostracized.


Come now. You can’t even dispute this. It is an article of faith for the left that Mankind is responsible for climate change.

2. Everyone must agree that anything Trump says, does, or touches is wrong, stupid, immoral, and/or illegal.


Go ahead. Say something positive about Trump.

3. Everyone must agree “Dreamers” are the best part of America, even better than the best citizen.


Nancy Pelosi said Trump’s plan to give 1.8M “dreamers” a path to citizen ship was a plan to “make America white again.”

No liberal can say anything, or accept any charge, any “dreamer.” Go ahead. Cite a liberal willing to violate this “article of faith.”

4. Everyone must agree capitalism is evil, corporations are criminal enterprises, and only do the right thing at the point of the government gun.


Actually, the more I think about it, the more I think you actually agree with this. Oh, you might object to the image of a “gun,” but you surely agree government is the answer to nearly every problem, real or imagined.