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Post 10 May 2017, 7:33 am

freeman3 wrote:But since we know that it is ludicrous for Trump to fire Comey for doing things that helped him...it's pretty clear this was about throwing a monkey wrench into the investigation into ties between Trump and Russia. We live in crazy (but interesting) times.


Put down the Kool-Aid for a moment.


When Trump brought in McMaster to be the new NSA, he let him choose who would be on the NSC.

Now, Rosenstein was approved a couple of weeks ago to the Assistant AG position in charge of the FBI. What makes you think he didn't give Rosenstein deference to choose to NOT have Comey?

Btw, Rosenstein was approved 94-6 on April 25. No less a hack than Elijah Cummings recently praised him.

This is Trump's bag man?

Please.
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Post 10 May 2017, 8:12 am

Please. Trump wanted to fire Comey for more than a week and solicited letters from Rosenstein and Sessions to justify it. That's what the following article states and it makes sense to me. I don't think there is any doubt that Trump was unhappy with Comey about the investigation into the Trump campaign's connections with Russia. The only question is whether Trump did it because there is something there or just because he was unhappy that Comey would not say there was nothing there. I suspect the former--mainly because of the fact that so many odd things have happened thus far,from Trump's favorable views towards Putin, to people connected to Russia being in his campaign, for Russia connected people like Tillerson and Flynn being in important positions being in his cabinet, to all the meetings with the Russian ambassador by Trump campaign people, Flynn and Sessions lying about meeting with the Russian ambassador, to Flynn bring so desperate to assure the Russian ambassador with regard to sanctions (on the day of sanctions), Trump's refusal to release tax returns that could demonstrate significant Russian connections, comments from Trump sons about significant Russian business connections and other somewhat vague suggestions of Russian business dealings, the Miss Universe pageant being held in Russia in 2013 with funding from a Russian oligarch, and of course the fact that Russia significantly intervened to help Trump to win the election (ed: also as Ricky notes the change in the party plank that was pro-Russian with regard to the Ukraine)-but we don't have enough yet to know.

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/05/1 ... sia-238192
Last edited by freeman3 on 10 May 2017, 9:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post 10 May 2017, 8:55 am

rayjay
The Trump-Russian connection awaits to be determined. It's ironic because Trump is a real problem for Russia because of his more muscular policies in Syria and other places as well as increased U.S. drilling which keeps the price of oil down.


More muscular policies in Syria? You mean the $60 million bombing of an empty airfield.
As for more drilling.... not happening.
Opening more federal lands and waters to oil and gas drilling is a pillar of President-elect Donald Trump's plan to make the United States energy independent, but he probably won't see the results while he's in office.
In many cases, oil and gas would not start flowing from government-administered territory until after Trump wrapped up his time in office — even if he were to win a second term
.
http://www.cnbc.com/2016/11/21/trump-wi ... ccurs.html

There's an oil glut world wide that forces thee price of oil down. And if the price of oil stays down most of the marginal production sites, those with high production costs like the Arctic or deep offshore...won't be developed.
Plus solar, wind, biomass etc are dropping production costs every day... while energy efficiency (like LED bulbs replacing flourescent) are slowing energy demand.

Trump is not interested in more investigation into his Russian connections. Until some committee or other subpoenas his tax records .... the depth of his ties to Russian investors, including Russian state bank, won't be fully understood.

Fate
Now, Rosenstein was approved a couple of weeks ago to the Assistant AG position in charge of the FBI. What makes you think he didn't give Rosenstein deference to choose to NOT have Comey?

Timing?
Rosenstein IS making a great case, if it had been made to Obama in July 16. And if Obama had had the chutzpah to act on the recommendation at the time... Politically it would have been seen then as Obama shutting down an investigation into Clinton...

Today, in context, its a lousy case. And even more politically corrosive for Trump as it would have been for Obama.
Trump has fired the guy investigating him.In hopes of gumming up the work of the FBI.
Even a special prosecutor needs the FBI investigative team to do the work....

Odds on favorite for the Trump pick Special Prosecutor? Rudy Giuliani...
And won't that be seen as a piece of work..

Until the midterms, unless one of Trumps associates spills the beans for some reason, there won't be anything but more drama and dirt. If the midterms create a change in the balance at Congress, and you get committees that have the power to subpoena trumps taxes.... then things will become much clearer.
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Post 10 May 2017, 9:08 am

bbauska
Tell me, was it conspiracy in your mind Danivon that Hilary had her work server in her home?

No. Just stupid.

Was it conspiracy that she was conducting government business and sensitive material from that server via her emails?

Excepting one or two instances.. she didn't actually. But it was still, just stupid.

Was it conspiracy that foreign actors were making massive "donations" to the so called Clinton Foundation?

No. Unless it was a conspiracy to fund particularly effective development work

Was it conspiracy in your mind that Bill walked onto Lorretta's plane during an investigation of his family?

Have you seen Bill lately? He was just wandering around. To infer that he had the foresight to think his actions would somehow forestall an FBI investigation is incredibly far fetched.

Was it conspiracy that by doing so she recused herself of the investigation deferring to Comey's recommendation?

No. Just a necessary ethical act due to Bills wandering around...

Is it conspiracy to say they by recusing herself, Comey was put in the position of recommending a course of action on what steps to take in regard to her emails?

No. Because Comey should have gone to her deputy.

Is it conspiracy that her investigation went nowhere in the end?

No.
There's was no there there.
Just like Ben Ghazi the the two dozen other far fetched investigations that Clintons enemies have tried to gin up into consequential issues...

The simplest explanation is almost always the most appropriate. In Trumps case he and some of his associates have taken money from people who want to influence him. The only real question is whether he peddled the influence or quid quo pro was just expected.
What we do know is that the republican parties platform was changed to the beneift of Russia back in July 16...
So what else?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... 9fcab95e91
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Post 10 May 2017, 9:54 am

freeman3 wrote:Please. Trump wanted to fire Comey for more than a week and solicited letters from Rosenstein and Sessions to justify it. That's what the following article states and it makes sense to me. I don't think there is any doubt that Trump was unhappy with Comey about the investigation into the Trump campaign's connections with Russia. The only question is whether Trump did it because there is something there or just because he was unhappy that Comey would not say there was nothing there. I suspect the former--mainly because of the fact that so many odd things have happened thus far,from Trump's favorable views towards Putin, to people connected to Russia being in his campaign, for Russia connected people like Tillerson and Flynn being in important positions being in his cabinet, to all the meetings with the Russian ambassador by Trump campaign people, Flynn and Sessions lying about meeting with the Russian ambassador, to Flynn bring so desperate to assure the Russian ambassador with regard to sanctions (on the day of sanctions), Trump's refusal to release tax returns that could demonstrate significant Russian connections, comments from Trump sons about significant Russian business connections and other somewhat vague suggestions of Russian business dealings, the Miss Universe pageant being held in Russia in 2013 with funding from a Russian oligarch, and of course the fact that Russia significantly intervened to help Trump to win the election (ed: also as Ricky notes the change in the party plank that was pro-Russian with regard to the Ukraine)-but we don't have enough yet to know.

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/05/1 ... sia-238192


Sure. Whatever.

Tell you what: how about a special investigation into Trump/Russia and another one into Clinton/emails?

We'll see who goes to jail first. My money's on Hillary.
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Post 10 May 2017, 9:57 am

rickyp wrote:Fate
Now, Rosenstein was approved a couple of weeks ago to the Assistant AG position in charge of the FBI. What makes you think he didn't give Rosenstein deference to choose to NOT have Comey?

Timing?


Oy.

He just got the job.

Rosenstein IS making a great case, if it had been made to Obama in July 16. And if Obama had had the chutzpah to act on the recommendation at the time... Politically it would have been seen then as Obama shutting down an investigation into Clinton...


Obama should have fired him. Clinton would have, if she had won.

Trump has fired the guy investigating him.In hopes of gumming up the work of the FBI.


Any evidence for that motive?

Odds on favorite for the Trump pick Special Prosecutor? Rudy Giuliani...
And won't that be seen as a piece of work..


I'll take that bet and I'll give you 6:1 odds. How much?
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Post 10 May 2017, 10:06 am

Oh, sure. Because they are equivalent in importance--one person's sloppy handling of emails versus a president being compromised by influence of a foreign power. Republicans are good at likening molehill-like errors (Benghazi, Clinton Investigations) to mountainous ones (George W Bush--Financial Crisis, No WMD/Invasion of Iraq, being asleep at the wheel before 9-11; Trump--Russian connections)
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Post 10 May 2017, 11:40 am

http://www.cnn.com/interactive/2017/pol ... nnections/

this is fun....

Wilbur Ross, as vice chairman of Cypress Bank, is particularly close to Russian oligarchs...
Ross, who had made billions of dollars years earlier by betting on bankrupt steel mills, was known for taking risky bets. But his decision to inject €400m into the bank with other investors encompassed a different kind of risk. It put him at the centre of the biggest financial institution in a country that was widely considered to be a tax haven for Russian oligarchs, even as the US and EU were imposing sanctions on Russia. In 2014, the year he made his investment, the US State Department considered Cyprus an area of “primary concern” for money laundering (pdf), according to its official assessment.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... -secretary

Maybe all these connections are all coincidental though...
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Post 10 May 2017, 12:17 pm

freeman3 wrote:Oh, sure. Because they are equivalent in importance--one person's sloppy handling of emails versus a president being compromised by influence of a foreign power. Republicans are good at likening molehill-like errors (Benghazi, Clinton Investigations) to mountainous ones (George W Bush--Financial Crisis, No WMD/Invasion of Iraq, being asleep at the wheel before 9-11; Trump--Russian connections)


I'm not likening anything. Clinton wasn't "sloppy." She violated clear instructions when she received her clearance. She handled classified material like it was two day-old McDonald's food found in a parking lot. Comey excused her because of mens rea, which is to say she was too stupid to commit a crime, but smart enough to be President. :rolleyes:

Trump-Russian connections are the fantasies of liberal wingnuts, who grow them in hydroponic gardens powered by solar windmills. Let me know when there is any evidence of wrongdoing on Trump's part.
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Post 10 May 2017, 12:19 pm

rickyp wrote:http://www.cnn.com/interactive/2017/politics/trump-russia-connections/

this is fun....

Wilbur Ross, as vice chairman of Cypress Bank, is particularly close to Russian oligarchs...
Ross, who had made billions of dollars years earlier by betting on bankrupt steel mills, was known for taking risky bets. But his decision to inject €400m into the bank with other investors encompassed a different kind of risk. It put him at the centre of the biggest financial institution in a country that was widely considered to be a tax haven for Russian oligarchs, even as the US and EU were imposing sanctions on Russia. In 2014, the year he made his investment, the US State Department considered Cyprus an area of “primary concern” for money laundering (pdf), according to its official assessment.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... -secretary

Maybe all these connections are all coincidental though...


Oooh! Innuendo! Twice-removed hints of possible wrongdoing!

Wow!

:no:
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Post 10 May 2017, 12:46 pm

Fate:
Trump-Russian connections are the fantasies of liberal wingnuts, who grow them in hydroponic gardens powered by solar windmills
.

Now that's funny.

Let me know when there is any evidence of wrongdoing on Trump's part.


No doubt you will hear about it, if/when it happens.
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Post 10 May 2017, 12:59 pm

If Trump is innocent...he sure acts guilty.
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Post 10 May 2017, 1:35 pm

freeman3 wrote:If Trump is innocent...he sure acts guilty.


If only that were the legal standard, we could put a lot more politicians in jail!

I'm in favor!
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Post 10 May 2017, 1:36 pm

Ray Jay wrote:Fate:
Trump-Russian connections are the fantasies of liberal wingnuts, who grow them in hydroponic gardens powered by solar windmills
.

Now that's funny.


Thank you very much.

I'll be here all week. Try the veal!

Let me know when there is any evidence of wrongdoing on Trump's part.


No doubt you will hear about it, if/when it happens.


And, I won't shed a tear.
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Post 10 May 2017, 1:57 pm

Let me break down the argument analytically:

(1) The proffered reasons for Comey’s firing—his interference in the election-- are pretextual because it helped Trump and if he was firing Comey for those reasons he would have done it immediately after becoming president;

(2) Given that no one fires an FBI director unless they have good cause (and Trump was aware of this, probably from Sessions, since he got his ducks in a row, as can be seen by his obtaining memos from Rothenstein and Sessions) there must be a major reason for firing Comey;

(3) The only major reason (besides the pretextual reasons already discounted) to fire Comey had to do with his investigation into the Trump’s campaign connections with Russia;

(4) If Trump did nothing significantly wrong with regard to his connections to Russia then Comey’s investigation should not have concerned him overly much, at least not to the extent of firing Comey;

THEREFORE if premises 1-4 are valid then necessarily

(5) Trump fired Comey because he was worried that Comey’s investigation into his connections with Russia would turn up something significantly negative about him.