GMTom wrote:"Not our America"
...not hate speech (and doing so on Veterans day at that)

"I'll buy you that ticket to Canada"
...hate speech

Excuse me but I can't see the difference

Many people have threatened to "leave the country" if Trump got elected; the same people who said that if Geo. Bush was (re)elected: Actors/Celebrities. I don't see how the statement that Prof said was hate speech, since the supposed target would be people who just got here or moved here and want to stay. In other words, were legal and/or illegal immigrants threatening to leave? I must have missed that one.

The "not my America" slogan is protesting what they see as acceptance of racism, sexism, and xenophobia in the election of Donald Trump. The professor then said he would buy them a bus ticket out of America if they agreed not to come back. Obviously, he is not literally going to do that so what he did mean by that?

Let me guess that the professor was not female, or an immigrant, or minority It takes a certain amount of inherent privilege to say that if you don't like it in "my" country then you can get out. An election was won by someone who used appalling language against Mexican immigrants, wants to drastically restrict Muslins coming into the country, who is clearly sexist, and who white supremacists supported. Now when people come out and protest and a lot are from those groups and they utter a slogan that is meant to say that they disagree with the values that Trump exemplified in his campaign, they are essentially told to shut up and leave.

I don't see how a slogan uttered in protest of political events is equivalent to someone telling the protesters to leave the country. Do any Trump voters feel that their position in the country is threatened by the slogan, that they are longer welcome here, that something negative might happen to them? Of course not. What about the professor's response? I don't think the protesters could say the same thing about the professor's statement--clearly they are being advised that they are not welcome here if they complain too much.

George, I had a hard time understanding your point--can you be a little clearer?

ahhh, so if you call it a "Slogan" then it's ok.
When you offer to help someone then it's hate speech.

He offered to buy a bus ticket, I can see the fear that offer creates?
Now the university has basically put a gag order on any employees talking about this. People can continue to protest, but nobody can disagree with their position.

Freeman:

Let me guess that the professor was not female, or an immigrant, or minority

racist and sexist (somewhat joking)

I don't get your point, RJ. My point was it takes a certain status and comfort zone in a society to tell to another group of people to get out. It's pretty doubtful that a Jew ever told a German in 1930s Germany to get out of his country (to take an extreme example). I made an assumption that an immigrant, a woman, or a member of a minority group would not have that sense of entitlement. I don't see how that is racist or sexist. It could be wrong of course but the idea that it is racist or sexist dumbfounds me.

I remember one time I got into a very heated argument with a friend who is more liberal than me about whether minority groups could be racist or not. His argument was that groups without any power cannot be racist; my argument, somewhat semantically based, was that of course they could be racist. But when I see how people are responding to any criticism of our society as being racist or sexist or xenophobic as itself being racist, sexist or xenophobic I am getting a lot more sympathetic to his argument. We just had a presidential candidate win an election saying things that were racist, sexist and xenophobic so it shouldn't be too controversial to say that we still have problems with racism, sexism, and xenophobia. If we didn't Trump would not be president.

freeman3 wrote:I don't get your point, RJ. My point was it takes a certain status and comfort zone in a society to tell to another group of people to get out. It's pretty doubtful that a Jew ever told a German in 1930s Germany to get out of his country (to take an extreme example). I made an assumption that an immigrant, a woman, or a member of a minority group would not have that sense of entitlement. I don't see how that is racist or sexist. It could be wrong of course but the idea that it is racist or sexist dumbfounds me.

I remember one time I got into a very heated argument with a friend who is more liberal than me about whether minority groups could be racist or not. His argument was that groups without any power cannot be racist; my argument, somewhat semantically based, was that of course they could be racist. But when I see how people are responding to any criticism of our society as being racist or sexist or xenophobic as itself being racist, sexist or xenophobic I am getting a lot more sympathetic to his argument. We just had a presidential candidate win an election saying things that were racist, sexist and xenophobic so it shouldn't be too controversial to say that we still have problems with racism, sexism, and xenophobia. If we didn't Trump would not be president.

Has anyone linked to the specifics in this case. My understanding from Tom is that the guy said to those who want to leave that he would buy the ticket. That's different then saying people should get out.

I think it makes sense to be a little extra sensitive for past discrimination. I know that my skin can be thin as it relates to anti-Semitism. But at a certain point this all goes too far. Not every black person or Latino person is disadvantaged. Some are privileged. Not every white natural born man has had it easy ... we are people too ... we have feelings and struggles, That's part of what this election is about.

I hear you. And upon reflection I am not really sure he should have lost his job over it. I think it was inappropriate speech for a professor that has to deal with a diverse student population, however. I am also not sure there is a big difference between telling someone to leave and offering them a bus ticket if they promise not to come back if this is not their America. I mean, we are all here now--wherever we came from--and we can intensely debate political issues without encouraging people to leave, even if they say this is not my America and that slogan really bothers a person. Argue with them on the merits without (figuratively) sending them into exile. I think that goes over the line. Call them crybabies, spoiled milennials, whatever. But they still belong here.

I also did find the story.

http://www.campustimes.org/2016/11/10/p ... come-back/

http://www.campustimes.org/2016/11/12/p ... ook-posts/

Thanks; and I get where you are coming from. A lot of people are very raw right now, especially judging from my FB news feed. It may be justified or not, but the fear and feelings are real.

BTW, a friend's daughter had a swastika drawn on her college dorm room door on Sat. morning. We don't know whether it was intended for the Jewish girl or her Mexican roommate, but does that really matter.

I wonder about this sudden explosion of racist hate stuff. It's not like these idiots are given some sort of free pass, could it be many of these are being done by those who want to make it look like they are right in their feelings?

GMTom wrote:I wonder about this sudden explosion of racist hate stuff. It's not like these idiots are given some sort of free pass, could it be many of these are being done by those who want to make it look like they are right in their feelings?

We don't know about all of it. However, some of it is the "false flag" stuff and I think some of it is meant to be funny or ironic or something.

http://www.businessinsider.com/san-fran ... st-2016-11

Each and every case should be investigated as if it IS real. It's vital that the investigations be thorough and swift, and that the results be made public. If there is a surge in hate crimes, there is nothing better to slow it than putting a bunch of these people in prison. On the other hand, if there are fraudulent claims, they should be exposed.

Could the professor's comments be based in the comments from celebrities and others who promised to leave the US? Perhaps he was just trying to facilitate the desires of some?

I do not want to sound like a denialist and hate crimes (real hate crimes) are horrible and can not be tolerated. But it's just "odd" that they suddenly happened after the election. No doubt Trump has some racist supporters but why would they suddenly start such nonsense? Yet on the other hand why would a Hillary supporter who is protesting "not my President" do such a thing? It sure does make some sense that these unhappy protesters would want to make a case and try to blame the other side. I am aware of a few examples already. Again, I am not dismissing it all but it does make me scratch my head in wonder.

GMTom wrote:I do not want to sound like a denialist and hate crimes (real hate crimes) are horrible and can not be tolerated. But it's just "odd" that they suddenly happened after the election. No doubt Trump has some racist supporters but why would they suddenly start such nonsense? Yet on the other hand why would a Hillary supporter who is protesting "not my President" do such a thing? It sure does make some sense that these unhappy protesters would want to make a case and try to blame the other side. I am aware of a few examples already. Again, I am not dismissing it all but it does make me scratch my head in wonder.

The theory is that Trump's election emboldened the bigots, racists, misogynists, homophobes, and Islamophobes because now they "know" they are "free" to express their hate because Trump has been vindicated in victory!

I'm ready to believe "hate is on the march." I just need evidence, which is not merely accusations. We don't convict someone simply because there's an accusation, right? So, why are some liberals so quick to be convinced there is a wave of hate crimes without actual evidence?

I'm willing to jump on it. I will condemn every single proven act of hate. What I will not do, at this point, is go nuts based on unsubstantiated accusations.

I don't know why people would be surprised. White supremacists/nationalists have clearly indicated that they have been emboldened by the Trump presidency. Trump comments on Mexicans and Muslims, his policy positions on building a wall, on massive deportations of illegal immigrants thrilled them. Moreover, Trump won an election in spite of his xenophobic positions. His selection of Bannon has encouraged them. https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.co ... ent=safari

The FBI has reported an increase of hate crimes against Muslims of 66% in 2015. New York has reported a surge in hate crimes in 2016. The Southern Christian Law Center is reporting an uptick as well.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/m.mic.com/ ... ent=safari

Trump stirred up racial resentment to get elected. It's not surprising that it would have an impact. And it's not some liberal conspiracy to make Trump look bad .You can't fake a swastika (unless you believe the girl in RJ's story did it herself)

Just hope it's a minor blip. Elections have consequences; electing someone who stirs up racial resentment has consequences, too.

freeman3 wrote:The FBI has reported an increase of hate crimes against Muslims of 66% in 2015. New York has reported a surge in hate crimes in 2016. The Southern Christian Law Center is reporting an uptick as well.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/m.mic.com/ ... ent=safari

From your link:

Politico New York showed there have been more hate crimes in 2016 in New York compared to all of 2015. Two areas of continued concern: anti-Semitic attacks and targeting based on sexual orientation.

So, what about Trump would stir up anti-Semitic or anti-homosexual/anti-LGBTQ attacks?

Trump stirred up racial resentment to get elected. It's not surprising that it would have an impact. And it's not some liberal conspiracy to make Trump look bad .You can't fake a swastika (unless you believe the girl in RJ's story did it herself)

Actually, you can "fake" a swastika. The man in SF raised a Nazi flag over his house to protest Trump. There were two Jewish students at Northwestern who "faked" a swastika. http://www.patdollard.com/two-jewish-st ... ika-trump/

Just hope it's a minor blip. Elections have consequences; electing someone who stirs up racial resentment has consequences, too.

Sure, without Obama we may never have had BLM's rioting.