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Post 15 Sep 2016, 9:22 am

I have a question based on a possible hypothetical.

Many people send in votes for the presidential election at least a month early via the "early voting method". Mrs. Clinton falls ill and becomes unable to take the presidency.

Are the early cast votes null and void? Do they count but only toward Mrs. Clinton's candidacy?

BTW, this is exactly why I don't like early voting.
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Post 15 Sep 2016, 10:52 am

No you can't cancel your vote. Here is an interesting article on early voting.
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/arc ... io/472677/

My view is that early voting is a good thing and if people want to express their preference early, knowing that things might change, there is nothing wrong with that. Republicans in general are against early voting and anything that makes it easier to vote because it helps Democratic turn-out.
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Post 15 Sep 2016, 12:04 pm

freeman3 wrote:No you can't cancel your vote. Here is an interesting article on early voting.
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/arc ... io/472677/

My view is that early voting is a good thing and if people want to express their preference early, knowing that things might change, there is nothing wrong with that. Republicans in general are against early voting and anything that makes it easier to vote because it helps Democratic turn-out.


So, are you saying that if a person in Alabama cast their vote today for Mrs. Clinton, and she is unable to take the presidency and withdraws from the race, Mr. Biden comes in and then the vote that was cast for Mrs. Clinton is:

A) Transferred to Biden
B) Kept on Clinton
C) Discarded

I don't know. Myself, I think it should stay on Clinton, because that is who the vote was cast for. I think you are saying that the vote would stay on Clinton.

Does that bother you as a Democrat?
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Post 15 Sep 2016, 12:31 pm

Once a vote is cast, that's it. It can't be withdrawn or changed to another candidate. It doesn't bother me. A voter takes the risk that circumstances will change between the time of his vote and the election. Does it bother me that different voters may be voting at different times and therefore are voting based on different information? I think it's reasonable to make early voting only count within 30 days prior to the election to reduce that difference. There is a balance to be made between voter convenience and requiring voters to be voting at the same time so that when they cast vote their vote is as informed as possible. But I don't think extending the vote for a month or two prior to the election is unreasonable. What if a candidate gets incapacitated the day after the election? Things can happen but we don't have to force everyone to vote on the same day to ensure that they have the same information (well, not same but the likelihood they know the same big things and at least the same temporal access to info) I leave it up to the voter if he/she wants to wait until the last possible moment to make a decision. Societally, we are better off if more people vote and are engaged in the democracy. Making it harder to vote reduces that democratic involvement. So overall getting more people to vote is more important than making sure that everyone's vote would not change if they did it on Election Day rather than before.
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Post 15 Sep 2016, 1:08 pm

freeman3
Once a vote is cast, that's it. It can't be withdrawn or changed to another candidate

The vote is not cast for a candidate. It is cast for states electors who form the Electoral College.
Faced with the death or incapacity of a candidate they could choose to vote for another person.

At least one election in the US was won by a dead man.

The 2000 United States Senate election in Missouri was held on November 7, 2000, to select the next U.S. Senator from Missouri. Incumbent Senator John Ashcroft lost re-election to Mel Carnahan, despite the fact Carnahan had died in a plane crash several weeks before election day.
In the midst of a tight race, Carnahan died in an plane crash only two weeks before the November general election. However, Carnahan's name remained on the ballot due to Missouri state election laws. Lieutenant Governor Roger B. Wilson became Governor upon Carnahan's death. He announced that, if Carnahan should be elected, he would appoint his widow Jean Carnahan to serve in his place, to which she agreed to this arrangement. Ashcroft suspended all campaigning after the plane crash in light of the tragedy.

Hillary is fine, by the way.
Trump, on the other hand...
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Post 15 Sep 2016, 2:59 pm

Nope, that's not how it works, Ricky. Votes are cast for a candidate--voters do not select electors. . In I think 48 states the electors are required to vote for the candidate who won the popular vote. However federal law allows electors to change their vote if a candidate dies or becomes incapacitated before the meeting of the electors.

http://www.archives.gov/federal-registe ... e/faq.html
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Post 16 Sep 2016, 10:22 am

freeman3 wrote:No you can't cancel your vote. Here is an interesting article on early voting.
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/arc ... io/472677/

My view is that early voting is a good thing and if people want to express their preference early, knowing that things might change, there is nothing wrong with that. Republicans in general are against early voting and anything that makes it easier to vote because it helps Democratic turn-out.

That is an interesting one. I saw an article about the now-anulled North Carolina electoral changes, which restricted early voting, but had no such restrictions for absentee voting.

The difference is:

Early voting is more likely to be used by black and poorer voters (you know, people who have to work on voting day).

Absentee voting is more susceptible to fraud, but is more likely to be used by white and middle class voters.
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Post 16 Sep 2016, 10:25 am

Does early voting really need to be three months? I am fine with a week, but three months is a bit much. Can that be a point of agreement?
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Post 16 Sep 2016, 10:40 am

Good point. No one complains about absentee voters but early voting is somehow a big deal. I think 30 days prior is ok for both absentee and early voters. A week is too short of a window.
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Post 16 Sep 2016, 1:29 pm

This is from your source Freeman..

Key Electoral College Dates and Events

View all the 2016 Presidential Election Key Dates

November 8, 2016—Election Day:
The voters in each State choose electors to serve in the Electoral College. As soon as election results are final, the States prepare seven original "Certificates of Ascertainment" of the electors chosen, and send one original along with two certified copies to the Archivist of the United States at the Office of the Federal Register.
December 19, 2016—Meeting of Electors:
The electors in each State meet to select the President and Vice President of the United States. The Electors record their votes on six “Certificates of Vote,” which are paired with the six remaining original “Certificates of Ascertainment.” The electors sign, seal and certify the packages of electoral votes and immediately send them to the Federal and State officials listed in these instructions.
December 28, 2016—Deadline for Receipt of Electoral Votes:
The President of the Senate, the Archivist of the United States, and other designated Federal and State officials must have the electoral votes in hand.
January 6, 2017—Counting Electoral Votes in Congress:
The Congress meets in joint session to count the electoral votes (unless Congress passes a law to change the date).

Its arcane....and I'm being pendantic
Because, yes, people think they are casting votes for the candidates... even if by the letter of the law they aren't.
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Post 18 Sep 2016, 1:31 am

bbauska wrote:Does early voting really need to be three months? I am fine with a week, but three months is a bit much. Can that be a point of agreement?
Three months sounds a lot. Which States are allowing early voting from August?
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Post 18 Sep 2016, 1:40 am

Looking at this https://www.vote.org/early-voting-calendar/ it seems most places that allow early in person voting start a month or less before the election date. Some, like Minnesota or Vermont allow it 46 days before. Others from when the ballots are available, but I doubt that would be the case 3 months before.
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Post 18 Sep 2016, 6:01 am

There is something about the misspelling of pedantic by Ricky that makes me smile...our cast of characters, here...

Anyway, It's hard for me to really comprehend that the presidency was originally chosen by electors nominated by the states without any criteria saying it had to be tied to the popular vote. So originally voters did not select electors in any sense. Nowadays, basically all electors go to the candidate who wins the popular vote. Maybe I'm being petty but I don't think voters are voting for electors. The two processes are separate. First, voters select a candidate. Secondly, electors go to the candidate who wins the popular vote in each state. In California, each candidate submits a slate of electors that will be their electors if they win. The third thing that comes into play is that by federal law electors are allowed to change their vote if a candidate dies or becomes incapacitated.
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Post 18 Sep 2016, 11:38 am

However, that last part is what the thread is about - What happens if a candidate dies.
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Post 20 Sep 2016, 7:13 am

freeman3
The two processes are separate.


And yet the source you quoted to "correct" my contention that the law is that electors are being directly chosen - not candidates ... clearly contradicts this statement.
At least when I mispell pedantic I can blame it on the inability of spell check to note the word is misspelled. (Go ahead type it pendantic into a reply post...)

I know I'm being snarky. But there is much about the current election laws across the US that could be challenged under the 14th Amendment. People are simply not treated equally .