Ideas?

Here's one.

How about a book or script for a short film put together by the good minds here on Redscape?

What might a few of the chapters/scenes cover?

Help me with an outline please. I'm serious.

dag hammarsjkold wrote:Ideas?

Jobs and opportunity to do something meaningful with their lives.

Destroy ISIS

geojanes wrote:

dag hammarsjkold wrote:Ideas?

Jobs and opportunity to do something meaningful with their lives.

Have mercy.

Sorry, that's a myth. Many of the terrorists are well to do. Furthermore, even when they have wives, children, and other "meaningful" things in their lives, they still value murder more than those things.

We're talking about a battle for the heart and mind. Killing ISIS will do nothing more than prep the soil for more radicals to take the place of their so called "martyrs."

How do you win a person's heart and mind in respect to religious belief? And I realize that not all of these radicals are religious or do what they do in the name of Islam but many do.

It seems to me "Revelation" must be tackled on some level. What does "Revelation" mean exactly within an Islamic context? What does it mean for the Koran to be "inspired?" What are the rules lets say for interpreting the Koran?

Mind you I am very much aware that this kind of work needs to be done within Muslim communities. Anything short of that will be suspect at the very least.

I've said it before that Muslims need their own set of heroes. There needs to emerge true leadership within their rank and file. Might those heroes come from their women? I doubt it given their status in Islamic societies or their children perhaps?

More individuals like this man perhaps...

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/02/10/imam-for-peace.html

dag hammarsjkold wrote:We're talking about a battle for the heart and mind. Killing ISIS will do nothing more than prep the soil for more radicals to take the place of their so called "martyrs."


http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/02/10/imam-for-peace.html

Destroying ISIS is part of the solution. You have to show that these are ideologies that cannot win. There was Marxist terrorism in Europe in the 80's, but that more or less stopped as well with the fall of the Soviet Union. By showing that their system is a failure, you also reduce their appeal to hearts and minds. Secondarily you create logistical and funding headaches if there is no basis for support.

Destroying ISIS is part of the solution. Show it to be weak. Show that it cannot win. Make it obvious that it is a fool's mission. That's part of the solution. Don't let these groups fester so that they appear to have some sort of answer.

(and I'm all for efforts re hearts and minds too)

Ray Jay wrote:

dag hammarsjkold wrote:We're talking about a battle for the heart and mind. Killing ISIS will do nothing more than prep the soil for more radicals to take the place of their so called "martyrs."


http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/02/10/imam-for-peace.html

Destroying ISIS is part of the solution. You have to show that these are ideologies that cannot win. There was Marxist terrorism in Europe in the 80's, but that more or less stopped as well with the fall of the Soviet Union. By showing that their system is a failure, you also reduce their appeal to hearts and minds. Secondarily you create logistical and funding headaches if there is no basis for support.

Destroying ISIS is part of the solution. Show it to be weak. Show that it cannot win. Make it obvious that it is a fool's mission. That's part of the solution. Don't let these groups fester so that they appear to have some sort of answer.

(and I'm all for efforts re hearts and minds too)

If there was a 'like' button, I would have hit it.

Thanks for clarifying why you listed "Destroy ISIS." And I agree. So that takes care of the physical threat. Now what about the intangible? What about the mind? What about the heart?

dag hammarsjkold wrote:Thanks for clarifying why you listed "Destroy ISIS." And I agree. So that takes care of the physical threat. Now what about the intangible? What about the mind? What about the heart?

I really don't know.

I've been experiencing Islamic terrorism on a personal level for 44 plus years. I remember the 1972 Olympics and the attack on the Israeli athletes. I know how Germany was complicit in the murderers being released. Is anything sacred?

I recall the Entebbe raid. I recall the Klinghoffer murder where a Jewish man in a wheel chair was tossed overboard for no reason. I lost a friend on 9/11, and another friend lost a son just recently. In the meantime there have been countless bombs on planes, and busses, and cafes. In Gaza children are taught to hate, and on the "moderate" West Bank they name streets after terrorists. They then use European money to pay stipends to the family of "martyrs".

This has been going on for a long time. The physical threat is not just ISIS. It's Hamas, and Hezbollah which has taken innocent life with Iranian help, the Taliban, and other groups as well. ISIS appears to be the worst, but there are others as well. I'm not sure where I am going here ...

Ray Jay wrote:

dag hammarsjkold wrote:Thanks for clarifying why you listed "Destroy ISIS." And I agree. So that takes care of the physical threat. Now what about the intangible? What about the mind? What about the heart?

I really don't know.

I've been experiencing Islamic terrorism on a personal level for 44 plus years. I remember the 1972 Olympics and the attack on the Israeli athletes. I know how Germany was complicit in the murderers being released. Is anything sacred?

I recall the Entebbe raid. I recall the Klinghoffer murder where a Jewish man in a wheel chair was tossed overboard for no reason. I lost a friend on 9/11, and another friend lost a son just recently. In the meantime there have been countless bombs on planes, and busses, and cafes. In Gaza children are taught to hate, and on the "moderate" West Bank they name streets after terrorists. They then use European money to pay stipends to the family of "martyrs".

This has been going on for a long time. The physical threat is not just ISIS. It's Hamas, and Hezbollah which has taken innocent life with Iranian help, the Taliban, and other groups as well. ISIS appears to be the worst, but there are others as well. I'm not sure where I am going here ...

Not sure how to take this. I have lived in a city that was bombed by terrorists at the time. And people I knew were about half a mile away when a bomb went off in a shopping area. So perhaps I should take it personally.

And despite all the above (and we can also find streets in Israel named for Irgun and Stern terrorists, or situations where Palestinian children have been brutally murdered), the main victims of Islamic terrorism and violence are other Muslims.

As full of hope as Dag is, I don't think a book or film would do it. I think working with Muslims to contain and then destroy ISIS would be a good start. Our countries should perhaps take a good long hard look at who their friends are out there, and what we are doing. Alliance with Saudi Arabia and helping the side they back in the Yemeni conflict really are not helping.

The hearts and mind thing is already taken care of. The enormous flow of information in the modern world flow via the internet and other media is subversive. Muslims all over the world are exposed to Western values of individual rights and freedoms, economic opportunities, and a vast array of consumer goods. Ultimately,Western values are subversive of other systems that limit the opportunities of their people. Perhaps even the root cause of Muslim terrorism is that the West through its attractive set of values threatens Muslim states which constrain their people--particularly women, but not only women--from individual development. We just need to stay the course, secure possible targets,endeavor to keep nuclear weapons out of dangerous hands, strike those who are seeking to hurt us to show that we are stronger, and let the steady flow of information show we have a better way.

freeman3 wrote:The hearts and mind thing is already taken care of. The enormous flow of information in the modern world flow via the internet and other media is subversive. Muslims all over the world are exposed to Western values of individual rights and freedoms, economic opportunities, and a vast array of consumer goods. Ultimately,Western values are subversive of other systems that limit the opportunities of their people. Perhaps even the root cause of Muslim terrorism is that the West through its attractive set of values threatens Muslim states which constrain their people--particularly women, but not only women--from individual development. We just need to stay the course, secure possible targets,endeavor to keep nuclear weapons out of dangerous hands, strike those who are seeking to hurt us to show that we are stronger, and let the steady flow of information show we have a better way.

Which is kind of what happened to the Soviet Bloc - eventually people were able to see that not only was the West materially better off, but that it was also freer, and then veil was lifted.

danivon wrote:

freeman3 wrote:The hearts and mind thing is already taken care of. The enormous flow of information in the modern world flow via the internet and other media is subversive. Muslims all over the world are exposed to Western values of individual rights and freedoms, economic opportunities, and a vast array of consumer goods. Ultimately,Western values are subversive of other systems that limit the opportunities of their people. Perhaps even the root cause of Muslim terrorism is that the West through its attractive set of values threatens Muslim states which constrain their people--particularly women, but not only women--from individual development. We just need to stay the course, secure possible targets,endeavor to keep nuclear weapons out of dangerous hands, strike those who are seeking to hurt us to show that we are stronger, and let the steady flow of information show we have a better way.

Which is kind of what happened to the Soviet Bloc - eventually people were able to see that not only was the West materially better off, but that it was also freer, and then veil was lifted.

Would you say information flow was more responsible than the economic collapse of the USSR? (No sarcasm intended)

I understand the argument that information will tear down this wall, as it were. However, some of these groups, many of them, go to extremes to live like it's the 12th Century with AK-47's and Toyota pick-ups. That's the Taliban in a nutshell.

Furthermore, the people oppressed under the Soviets had no eschatological investment in the communist system. Those living under the threat of Islamic extremism share the same (or similar) future expectations. In my opinion, that is a significant difference.

Ideas were central to the collapse of the Soviet Union. The economic problems were not that serious.
http://foreignpolicy.com/2011/06/20/eve ... -is-wrong/

I found the following article about Wahhabism to be very interesting. This austere form of the Sunni sect of Islam is very intolerant towards any other interpretation of Islam and towards unbelievers. There is a soft form which is conservative but not necessarily violent. The ruling class of Saudi Arabia is an example of the soft form, but Wahhsbism carries within the resort to violence to create a world that correspond to their beliefs. The Saudis used their oil money to sponsor madrassas within the Muslim to export Wahhabism across the Muslim world. It is not accidental that Osama Bin Laden came from Saudi Arabia; the hard form of Wahhabism comes in when followers seek to put into place the belief that there can be only one interpretation and any unbelievers forfeit their life. Osama Bin Laden is an example of the violent form of Wahhabism. And one suspects that the success in fighting Russians in Afghanistan (albeit with CIA help) helped give radical Muslims the confidence that they could fight the US and win.

So Saudi Arabia is our nominal ally but they have used their wealth to spread a religious doctrine that is intolerant and likely to cause conflict. In the Soviet Union the system collapsed because people had lost faith in it and Gorbachev was unwilling to use violence. What would cause this radical form of Wahhabism to die out? I would say contain it, don't let it get victories, provide alternatives, and for sure shut-off this Saudi export of Wahhabist ideology.

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/5717157
http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/5748744