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Post 21 Jul 2016, 8:24 am

I doubt they "Had" to be escorted out of the building. There was no violence directed at them only boos and chants, it was probably wise to do so but not "required". They (Cruz camp) made a bit of a big deal out of it.

As far as Cruz actually supporting Trump,
If he simply stayed away and kept his mouth shut I would have no problem with that. I did not expect rousing support in any way. But when he agreed to give his little speech, he can of course say whatever he likes but it was accepted under assumption he would do as pledged and do as is customary. When he went off and did as he did, that is where he went wrong. That will not work for him in the long term.

I agree it was fun to watch though.
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Post 21 Jul 2016, 8:55 am

What was it that Cruz said that was wrong? He did not endorse Trump, but really; what did Cruz say that was wrong? Here is the text of the speech:


Thank you. Heidi and I are honored to join you here in Cleveland, where Lebron James just led an incredible comeback victory. I’m convinced America is going to come back too.

I congratulate Donald Trump on winning the nomination last night.

Conventions are times of excitement. But given the events of the last few weeks, I hope you’ll allow me a moment to talk to you about what’s really at stake.

Just two weeks ago, a nine-year-old girl named Caroline was having a carefree Texas summer – swimming in the pool, playing with friends, doing all the things a happy child might do.

Like most children, she took for granted the love she received from her mom, Heidi, and her dad, a police sergeant named Michael Smith. That is, until he became one of the five police officers gunned down in Dallas.

The day her father was murdered, Caroline gave him a hug and kiss as he left for work. But as they parted, her dad asked her something he hadn’t asked before:

“What if this is the last time you ever kiss or hug me?’”

Later, as she thought of her fallen father, and that last heartbreaking hug, Caroline broke down in tears. How could anything ever be OK again?

Michael Smith was a former Army ranger who spent three decades with the Dallas Police Department. I have no idea who he voted for in the last election, or what he thought about this one. But his life was a testament to devotion. He protected the very protestors who mocked him because he loved his country and his fellow man. His work gave new meaning to that line from literature, “To die of love is to live by it.”

As I thought about what I wanted to say tonight, Michael Smith’s story weighed on my heart. Maybe that’s because his daughter, Caroline, is about the same age as my eldest daughter and happens to share the same name. Maybe it’s because I saw a video of that dear, sweet child choking back sobs as she remembered her daddy’s last question to her. Maybe it’s because we live in a world where so many others have had their lives destroyed by evil, in places like Orlando and Paris and Nice and Baton Rouge. Maybe it is because of the simple question itself:

What if this, right now, is our last time? Our last moment to do something for our families and our country?

Did we live up to our values? Did we do all we could?

That’s really what elections should be about. That’s why you and millions like you devoted so much time and sacrifice to this campaign.

We’re fighting, not for one particular candidate or one campaign, but because each of us wants to be able to tell our kids and grandkids, our own Carolines, that we did our best for their future, and for our country.

America is more than just a land mass between two oceans. America is an idea, a simple yet powerful idea: freedom matters.

For much of human history, government power has been the unavoidable constant in life – government decrees, and the people obey.

Not here. We have no king or queen. No dictator. We the People constrain government.

Our nation is exceptional because it was built on the five most powerful words in the English language: I want to be free.

Never has that message been more needed than today.

We stand here tonight a nation divided. Partisan rancor, anger, even hatred are tearing America apart.

And citizens are furious—rightly furious—at a political establishment that cynically breaks its promises and ignores the will of the people.

We have to do better. We owe our fallen heroes more than that.

Of course, Obama and Clinton will tell you that they also care about our children’s future. And I want to believe them. But there is a profound difference in our two parties’ visions for the future.

Theirs is the party that thinks ISIS is a “JV team,” that responds to the death of Americans at Benghazi by asking, “What difference does it make?” That thinks it’s possible to make a deal with Iran, which celebrates as holidays “Death to America Day” and “Death to Israel Day.”

My friends, this is madness.

President Obama is a man who does everything backwards – he wants to close Guantanamo Bay and open up our borders, he exports jobs and imports terrorists.

Enough is enough.

There is a better vision for our future: A return to freedom.

On education, your freedom to choose your child’s education, even if you aren’t as rich as Hillary Clinton or Barack Obama.

On healthcare, your freedom to choose your own doctor, without Obamacare.

On taxes, your freedom to provide for your family without the IRS beating down your door.

The Internet? Keep it free from taxes, free from regulation. And don’t give it away to Russia and China.

Freedom means free speech, not politically correct safe spaces.

Freedom means religious freedom, whether you are Christian or Jew, Muslim or atheist. Gay or straight, the Bill of Rights protects the rights of all of us to live according to our conscience.

Freedom means the right to keep and bear arms, and protect your family.

Freedom means Supreme Court Justices who don’t dictate policy, but instead follow the Constitution.

And freedom means recognizing that our Constitution allows states to choose policies that reflect local values. Colorado may decide something different than Texas. New York different than Iowa. Diversity. That’s the way it’s supposed to be. If not, what’s the point of having states to begin with?

Hillary Clinton believes government should make virtually every choice in your life. Education, healthcare, marriage, speech – all dictated out of Washington.

But something powerful is happening. We’ve seen it in both parties. We’ve seen it in the United Kingdom’s unprecedented Brexit vote to leave the European Union.

Voters are overwhelmingly rejecting big government. That’s a profound victory.

People are fed up with politicians who don’t listen to them, fed up with a corrupt system that benefits the elites, instead of working men and women.

We deserve an immigration system that puts America first. And yes, builds a wall to keep us safe.

That stops admitting ISIS terrorists as refugees.

We deserve trade policies that put the interests of American farmers and manufacturing jobs over the global interests funding the lobbyists.

And if we choose freedom, our future will be brighter.

Freedom will bring back jobs, raise wages.

Freedom will lift people out of dependency, to the dignity of work.

We can do this. 47 years ago today, America put a man on the moon. That’s the power of freedom.

Our party was founded to defeat slavery. Abraham Lincoln, the first Republican president, signed the Emancipation Proclamation.

We passed the Civil Rights Act, and fought to eliminate Jim Crow laws.

Those were fights for freedom, and so is this.

Sergeant Michael Smith stood up to protect our freedom.

So do our soldiers, sailors, airmen, and Marines fighting radical Islamic terrorism.

So did the family of Alton Sterling, who bravely called to end the violence.

So did the families of those murdered at the Charleston Emanuel AME church, who forgave that hateful, bigoted murderer.

And so can we.

We deserve leaders who stand for principle. Unite us all behind shared values. Cast aside anger for love. That is the standard we should expect, from everybody.

And to those listening, please, don’t stay home in November. Stand, and speak, and vote your conscience, vote for candidates up and down the ticket who you trust to defend our freedom and to be faithful to the Constitution.

It’s love of freedom that has allowed millions to achieve their dreams. Like my Mom, the first in her family to go to college, and my Dad, who fled prison and torture in Cuba, coming to Texas with just $100 sewn into his underwear.

And it is love that I hope will bring comfort to a grieving 9-year-old girl in Dallas – and, God willing, propel her to move forward, and dream, and soar . . . and make her daddy proud.

We must make the most of our moment – to fight for freedom, to protect our God-given rights, even of those with whom we don’t agree, so that when we are old and gray . . . and our work is done . . . and we give those we love one final kiss goodbye . . . we will be able to say, “Freedom matters, and I was part of something beautiful.”

Thank you. And may God bless the United States of America.
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Post 21 Jul 2016, 9:40 am

Brad...he is not invited to give a speech at the Republican National Convention so he can jump-start his campaign for 2020. He has got to give at least lukewarm support for Trump. If he doesn't want to do that then don't give a speech. Typical Cruz--no class, say anything to promote himself, does not care about anything else. Not a bad speech...but he should have some respect for how things are done.
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Post 21 Jul 2016, 9:57 am

freeman3 wrote:Brad...he is not invited to give a speech at the Republican National Convention so he can jump-start his campaign for 2020. He has got to give at least lukewarm support for Trump. If he doesn't want to do that then don't give a speech. Typical Cruz--no class, say anything to promote himself, does not care about anything else. Not a bad speech...but he should have some respect for how things are done.


The Trump camp knew what he was going to say and let him get up there.

Furthermore, the ONLY thing he failed to do is say, "I endorse Trump." No one could listen to what he said and conclude that voting for Hillary was what Cruz had in mind.
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Post 21 Jul 2016, 10:40 am

danivon wrote:Anyway, enough about the fluff. What about the platform? I hear that the Republicans refused to include reference to homosexuals as victims of ISIS.


It's an op/ed from the NYT, so understand the source, but the platform does seem pretty out of step. But what do I know? Donald Trump is the nominee and has a good chance to be elected as next president of the USA, something I would have given a zero percent chance of happening 12 months ago.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/19/opini ... .html?_r=0
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Post 21 Jul 2016, 11:09 am

freeman3 wrote:Brad...he is not invited to give a speech at the Republican National Convention so he can jump-start his campaign for 2020. He has got to give at least lukewarm support for Trump. If he doesn't want to do that then don't give a speech. Typical Cruz--no class, say anything to promote himself, does not care about anything else. Not a bad speech...but he should have some respect for how things are done.


Are you saying that he should get up there and say something he does not agree with? That is outside of my capability. If a person is not someone that I think is qualified, then I will not say that I support him.

To say that you do support him is to be a liar. Perhaps that is easier for some, but not me.

Cruz did not say one negative thing about Trump. If he did, please show me where.
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Post 21 Jul 2016, 12:10 pm

dag hammarsjkold wrote:Not only Michelle but her husband and Joe Biden....so go the claims.

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2016/07/19/melania-trump-plagiarism-hillary-biden-barack-michelle/

Do you have evidence that she didn't?
Michelle's appears to solely be the use of phrases "the world as it is" and "the world as it should be", which in the (not exactly unbiased) Breitbart opinion are sourced from Saul Alinsky (a frequent bogey man for the Right).

But these are common turns of phrase and looking on Google for the latter seem to used by all kinds of people.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=the+w ... +should+be

Biden I am well aware of as he used a Neil Kinnock speech as a template for his own about coming from a mining family where none before had been to college/university. And apparently Barack borrowed heavily from Deval Patrick.

One key difference - they both did not deny it (Biden did actually acknowledge the source on other occasions and Patrick was fine with Obama's).

Melania (and the Trump team) appear now to be denying what was far more extensive (not just two similar common phrases for the Is-Ought problem, but whole chunks In order).

That is different

Anyway, apart from gallantly defending Mrs Trump through whataboutery, does anyone have anything of substance to say about the Republican Convention?

Does the agreed party platform please you or horrify you? And again, do you think blocking a reference to gay victims of ISIS was right?
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Post 21 Jul 2016, 12:29 pm

What I read today is that the Trump camp offered John Kasich the VP slot, but he turned it down. Not only that though, he was reportedly offered a chance to be the most powerful Veep in history, with oversight of both foreign and domestic policy. When he asked what Trump himself would be responsible for the answer was "making America great again", which it would seem does not require recourse to either foreign or domestic policy...

It's one of those stories that I half want to be true because it would be hilarious and half really don't want to be true because it would be terrifying.
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Post 21 Jul 2016, 12:38 pm

Sassenach wrote:What I read today is that the Trump camp offered John Kasich the VP slot, but he turned it down. Not only that though, he was reportedly offered a chance to be the most powerful Veep in history, with oversight of both foreign and domestic policy. When he asked what Trump himself would be responsible for the answer was "making America great again", which it would seem does not require recourse to either foreign or domestic policy...

It's one of those stories that I half want to be true because it would be hilarious and half really don't want to be true because it would be terrifying.
You mean like Cheney was?
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Post 21 Jul 2016, 1:09 pm

Cheney was powerful, sure, but that comes across as Trump wanting somebody to do essentially all of the work. That's the scary part, that somebody with such forthright views could at the same time have such a short attention span.
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Post 21 Jul 2016, 1:11 pm

Sassenach wrote:Cheney was powerful, sure, but that comes across as Trump wanting somebody to do essentially all of the work. That's the scary part, that somebody with such forthright views could at the same time have such a short attention span.

Ever watch "The Candidate"?
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Post 22 Jul 2016, 5:41 am

bbauska wrote:Are you saying that he should get up there and say something he does not agree with? That is outside of my capability. If a person is not someone that I think is qualified, then I will not say that I support him.

To say that you do support him is to be a liar. Perhaps that is easier for some, but not me.

Cruz did not say one negative thing about Trump. If he did, please show me where.


I completely agree Brad. The way some people play the game of politics is like a street gang: there is no individual, the gang is always right. Of course, if you believe in free will, and actual democracy, there is only the individual, and the gang is meaningless. But this seems to be a minority opinion.
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Post 22 Jul 2016, 5:59 am

I watched a fair amount last night ... I've been a big Peter Thiel fan for years ... he sponsored the Singularity Institute which was a huge hobby of mine several years ago ... I've hear him speak before on more wonky stuff and he was much better ... it's great that he came out, and even better that there was widespread acceptance, and an even ho hum aspect to it ... that is very different than Republican conventions at least a couple back.

Ivanka was great ... she has a political future ahead of her ... a little bit too much "my father", but that's how these things go.

I thought Trump himself was terrible ... all platitudes that he "alone" can fix things right away, but no plan, or even a hint of a plan. He's got the maturity of a teen ager ... just give him the keys to the car ... what's the worst that can happen?
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Post 22 Jul 2016, 9:03 am

I agree Ivanka did a great job (I liked her brother Don Jr the other night as well) I can see her and her brother doing well in politics!

I also agree, The Donald" was not much more than a blow hard.
That said, I did not expect any concrete plans just yet, to expect more than fluff at this stage is just asking for the impossible. He better come out with real plans well in advance of the election of course but FOR NOW, I have no problem with no specifics.
I was listening and damn if I didn't find so many similarities between him and Hitler!

It was crazy
Us against them
America first
blaming everyone else for your troubles
Substitute Islamic Terrorists for Jews
Goofy hair
Lots of yelling
Frenzied crowd
I'm sure I could go on
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Post 22 Jul 2016, 10:34 am

Convincing case made about the similarities of Trump to Hitler, Tom (Trump has tried to tamp into anger against outsiders as a good Fascist should)

And Brad what I said with regard to Cruz is that he could have chosen to not make the speech if endorsing Trump went against his principles (like Kasich for example), but if he made the speech he should at least tepidly endorse Trump. All he had to say was that even though he he has major differences with Trump as between Trump and Hillary the choice was clear. Your comment that Cruz should not have to lie or violate his principles presupposes that Cruz had to make a speech. He did not.