Cruz has freedom to say what he wants, and to avoid saying what he wants to avoid.

There is a bit of a credibility issue in that during the campaign he and others (including Trump) promised to support whoever won the Primaries.
On the other had, since then Trump and Cruz had major fallings out and it got personal. He did not attack Trump this week either, and he went to Cleveland where some didn't even bother.

freeman3 wrote:And Brad what I said with regard to Cruz is that he could have chosen to not make the speech if endorsing Trump went against his principles (like Kasich for example), but if he made the speech he should at least tepidly endorse Trump.

I completely disagree. It's a convention for all Republicans. Should you be excluded because you disagree? That's crazy.

He presumably cleared his speech with Trump's team beforehand, so if anybody is upset about this (and so far as I'm aware nobody on Trump's staff has complained) then they really need to take it up with the campaign managers who authorised the speech. It's naive to think that anything could take place on the conference floor that wasn't pre-approved.

He didn't get excluded; he did not have to give a speech. The purpose of a convention--Democratic or Republican--is to nominate the party candidate and get behind him or her so that the party has the best chance at winning the presidency. Giving a speech that goes against that principle was done solely to fuel Cruz's political ambitions at the expense of the party. If the Trump camp had any organization they would not have allowed that speech. If Sanders gave a similar speech at the Democratic convention I would find it equally objectionable. Once the nomination prices is over it's past time to argue the merits of the nominee. Come on, you lost...have a little class. Anyway, I suspect there will be enough Republicans voters that will not forgive what we did so that he has no chance ever at the presidency. Quite a good thing in my opinion so I'm glad he did it.

I think you underestimate the disorganization of Trump's camp.They let Melania Trump copy whole chunks of a speech from Michelle Obama's speech without catching it. They are incompetent. That being said it was widely predicted that Cruz would not endorse Trump in his speech so apparently they thought the benefits of allowing Cruz to speak outweighed the negatives of no endorsement.

Is a Convention just days of cheerleading?

Or is it to debate and agree who the candidate is, what the national party platform is, and discuss policy, strategy etc?

For party discipline, I get the idea that dissent should be discouraged. But for democracy, I think it is dangerous.

freeman3 wrote:Convincing case made about the similarities of Trump to Hitler, Tom (Trump has tried to tamp into anger against outsiders as a good Fascist should)

And Brad what I said with regard to Cruz is that he could have chosen to not make the speech if endorsing Trump went against his principles (like Kasich for example), but if he made the speech he should at least tepidly endorse Trump. All he had to say was that even though he he has major differences with Trump as between Trump and Hillary the choice was clear. Your comment that Cruz should not have to lie or violate his principles presupposes that Cruz had to make a speech. He did not.

No, Trump is not Hitler. Hitler was a mesmerizing orator.

A better analogy, I think, is Mussolini: a brute who could make the trains run on time and had delusions of grandeur. As RayJay said, he's got a "savior complex" ("I alone can fix it.") that is quite something to behold. His followers care little about policy and believe he is something of a magician. It is bizarre to interact with them and ask questions like "What makes him a conservative?" or "What do you make of Ivanka's pledge to federally improve childcare?"

They don't know.

The answer is always, "But Trump!"

freeman3 wrote:I think you underestimate the disorganization of Trump's camp.They let Melania Trump copy whole chunks of a speech from Michelle Obama's speech without catching it. They are incompetent. That being said it was widely predicted that Cruz would not endorse Trump in his speech so apparently they thought the benefits of allowing Cruz to speak outweighed the negatives of no endorsement.

True re incompetence.

However, wasn't that two paragraphs of her speech?

The worst part of the convention (for the record): his press conference afterward in which he went after Cruz, dredging up the Heidi pic and the JFK assassination.

Maybe he's trying to get a psych disqualification before the election?

Did everyone see Laura Ingraham's Nazi salute? Yeah, I know supposedly it was a wave...but she was saluting Donald Trump. It was a Heil Hitler like salute to the leader just like a good Nazi. She pursed her lips, extended it out to full extension to salute Trump and then relaxed her elbow, stopped pursing her lips, smiled and waved to the crowd. In contrast to Republican spinners no one has ever done that in mainstream American politics. Ever.

I guess we should give her the benefit of the doubt and assume it was unintentional but this is not the candidate to be giving straight-armed salutes to. Do we get an apology from her? No, of course not. Would it shock me if she did that as a way to get out the racist vote? No, it would not shock me.

I'm having a very hard time believing this claim Freeman.

First, did you look at the video? That's not something you are relying on me to claim. I'm not sure there is much to dispute that Ingrahan saluted Trump with a straight arm which is reminiscent of a straight-armed Nazi salute. I then said (it is impossible to know her intent) that we should give her the benefit of the doubt. The only "claim" I made was it would not surprise me if it were a form of dog whistle. Trump has been reluctant to disavow racist support. He was eventually forced to. All I said it would not shock me if that little salute was a signal to racists that they are still welcome to vote for Trump. You can make your own judgment on whether that is possible or not. I don't know why we just should assume benign intent when stakes are so high in a presidential race and people want to win very badly.

Freeman,

First of all, can you post the video next time? I did find it on you tube and I must say your interpretation is a stretch and then some.

I just can't see her attempting to woo a bunch of KKK supporters. Do you think she would actually risk her career on an attempt to garner so few votes? How many can their be?

I would never expect this kind of "gottcha" nonsense from you Freeman.

Her so called "salute" takes place for less than a millisecond and was a wave to one side of the room.

And here's the video so that others can make up their own minds....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WTltfYfD5g

I actually thought her speech was pretty good. Especially her calling out the media. Granted it's too bad she's caught up with supporting Trump but the speech itself was one of the better speeches I've heard so far.

It takes like 5 seconds to find video--I expect people to have minimal Google skills on a topic that is drawing a lot of attention.

Here is a better video. http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/ ... mined.html

First of all you don't have to pivot your whole body a quarter turn to to the left to wave to the crowd. That's very odd--most speakers would just rotate their upper body. Secondly, she purses her lips fixedly,does not wave at all, and holds the salute briefly. Then her facial expression changes into a smile, and she starts pointing at people. That is a lot of odd things happening in one gesture.

And as far as Ingraham risking anything--what has she risked? Nothing. She has plausible deniability. Did you see all the people in the crowd with America First signs? What do you think that means, really?

And to top it off Trump responds to it on Twitter with an America First hash tag--the same name as an anti-Semitic organization from pre-WW II.

hahahahaha, you gotta be kidding me!
You stop the motion at just the right time and it looks to be a Nazi salute but that's it. Can you tell us all about how 9/11 never happened now? How about little green men invading earth as well?

Go ahead and dislike Trump
Go ahead and relate him to the Nazi's (I have myself)
Go ahead and do all sorts of nonsense but please don't try to have us believe this is some sort of disguised salute in any way whatsoever, it only paints you as one of those conspiracy nut jobs we all laugh at!

and what does "America First" mean
Ummm, it means he thinks America should come first, our needs should trump (pun intended) all others.

Hey, it sure can remind you of Nazi policies! But trying to claim his slogan has anything to do with a Nazi policy ...good God man, get a grip with reality!