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Post 19 Jul 2016, 9:09 pm

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/mat ... 6?section=
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Post 20 Jul 2016, 5:48 am

Mr Obama plagiarized Deval Patricks speech back in 2008
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/obama-accus ... in-speech/

funny how it was such a non-issue back then and now it is.
It didn't matter when the person was actually running for office
But it does when it's a wife who never gave a speech before?

Yeah, she no doubt unknowingly plagiarized Michelle but why the big deal?
It just goes to show how liberally biased the media really is. That is the real issue isn't it?
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Post 20 Jul 2016, 6:01 am

I'm not sure it counts as plagiarism when you are quoting famous lines to make a point.

That's like saying a priest giving a sermon is "plagiarizing" because he quoted the same verse of the Bible as the guy last month.
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Post 20 Jul 2016, 7:02 am

Of course not but if you watched the two speeches (as I did) it was more than that!

The gist being it's not "Just Words"
then going on to use the same exact three quotes asking are they "just words"
it was the same darn thing.
And to be fair, I doubt Obama consciously stole that himself. He heard that speech, it resonated with him and it came out in his later speech. It was (probably) not intentional then, just as Melania's was not intentional now.

But why was it a non-issue then for the actual candidate to plagiarize yet now the candidates wife who never gave a speech before is getting hammered for it???
Media Bias!
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Post 20 Jul 2016, 7:40 am

theshrizzz wrote:I'm not sure it counts as plagiarism when you are quoting famous lines to make a point.

That's like saying a priest giving a sermon is "plagiarizing" because he quoted the same verse of the Bible as the guy last month.


If you've listened to the Patrick/Obama comparisons, you can't be serious. Same structure, same themes, similar cadence. Oh, and Axelrod just happened to be heavily involved in both campaigns.
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Post 20 Jul 2016, 8:02 am

Doctor Fate wrote:
theshrizzz wrote:I'm not sure it counts as plagiarism when you are quoting famous lines to make a point.

That's like saying a priest giving a sermon is "plagiarizing" because he quoted the same verse of the Bible as the guy last month.


If you've listened to the Patrick/Obama comparisons, you can't be serious. Same structure, same themes, similar cadence. Oh, and Axelrod just happened to be heavily involved in both campaigns.


To be fair, no I didn't listen to them. So you may be right there. From only reading the transcripts, though, there is definitely a difference between just using common words and quoting a well-known line. Because as much as the sentiments that both Melania and Michelle wanted to express are understandably general, the chances you'd have that many of the exact same words in a row (without it being a famous quote) seem fairly low to me.
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Post 20 Jul 2016, 8:12 am

theshrizzz wrote:
Doctor Fate wrote:
theshrizzz wrote:I'm not sure it counts as plagiarism when you are quoting famous lines to make a point.

That's like saying a priest giving a sermon is "plagiarizing" because he quoted the same verse of the Bible as the guy last month.


If you've listened to the Patrick/Obama comparisons, you can't be serious. Same structure, same themes, similar cadence. Oh, and Axelrod just happened to be heavily involved in both campaigns.


To be fair, no I didn't listen to them. So you may be right there. From only reading the transcripts, though, there is definitely a difference between just using common words and quoting a well-known line. Because as much as the sentiments that both Melania and Michelle wanted to express are understandably general, the chances you'd have that many of the exact same words in a row (without it being a famous quote) seem fairly low to me.


There's about 20 seconds of John Edwards first. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6pDCvXNVTE

These were campaign rally speeches.

And, I agree, the pablum Michelle and Melania were tossing out appears in almost every first wife speech.
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Post 20 Jul 2016, 9:52 am

Mrs. Trump is not running for president so it's not that big of a deal. But if she wanted to cement an impression of an air head model...mission accomplished. The only reasonable inference here is that she went back and read Michelle Obama's speech and took the parts she liked. I just can't imagine a speechwriter making that mistake. And the word for word copying does not happen due to unintentional/unknowing plagiarism. She just did not think it was a big deal...dumb in four languages.

Yes...and if you are beautiful you too could marry a guy who inherited 200 million dollars and be First Lady!
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Post 20 Jul 2016, 1:16 pm

I would think this could go away in a heartbeat if Melania simply said she wrote that part and did so without consciously knowing she did. But (true or not) one of the Trump speechwriters "admitted" it being her mistake and offered to resign, that resignation was not accepted by the Trumps.

Maybe it's true, maybe it's not, who really cares what a model has to say? She's easy on the eyes and I look forward to her next speech, hell, she could read the ingredients off a cereal box and I'm gonna watch! who cares if she uses anothers speech?

I was going to say I don't care about the other first lady either, duhhhhhh
Seriously, I would not care about the other "spouse" but I guess it being an ex-president himself, we wouldn't let such a slip up go in his case would we? But other than him I really don't care!
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Post 20 Jul 2016, 2:55 pm

Biden's plagiarism was the worst. I mean, who rips off Neil Kinnock, a man universally known in his day as the "Welsh Windbag" ?
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Post 20 Jul 2016, 2:55 pm

freeman3 wrote:Mrs. Trump is not running for president so it's not that big of a deal. But if she wanted to cement an impression of an air head model...mission accomplished. The only reasonable inference here is that she went back and read Michelle Obama's speech and took the parts she liked. I just can't imagine a speechwriter making that mistake. And the word for word copying does not happen due to unintentional/unknowing plagiarism. She just did not think it was a big deal...dumb in four languages.

Yes...and if you are beautiful you too could marry a guy who inherited 200 million dollars and be First Lady!


So, was Obama an air-head when he plagiarized Patrick?
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Post 20 Jul 2016, 3:03 pm

Sassenach wrote:Biden's plagiarism was the worst. I mean, who rips off Neil Kinnock, a man universally known in his day as the "Welsh Windbag" ?


'Plugs Biden, aka the Delaware Draft?
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Post 21 Jul 2016, 6:00 am

Boneheaded move by Cruz last night.
Instead of a message of unity and instead of doing as he had promised, Ted went and gave a speech that was critical of Trump.

Not smart!
First he alienated a lot of people with his "me first" approach and ignoring his signed pledge.
But he also set himself up for future failure
If Trump wins, Cruz is pretty much locked out of everything for 4 years (maybe 8?)
If Trump loses, then he is seen as part of that reason for the loss and few will trust him to unite the party he himself attempted to tear apart. Just a real baaaad move!

It seemed to create a minor stir at best and was all calmed down as soon as Trump appeared. I thought it was almost comical how one of the Cruz supporters was talking how they feared for his wife's life and sped her away. feared for her life? really? They shouted "Goldman Sachs" to her and booed, no threats at all.
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Post 21 Jul 2016, 7:49 am

I loved the pageantry of last night's convention. I agree that it was unfortunate that Cruz couldn't get over his wounded male ego. Was an ass. Always was, always will be. But I can assure you of one thing, I'm sick of scripted conventions. A little controversy was very much welcome by me. I remember reading about the old days when conventions would often times experience fist to cuffs. Now that's what I'm talking about. American politics is soooo scripted. I love the fact that there is energy in the air at the GOP convention. The majority of that energy is due to Trump who has dealt this pathetic party a swift kick in its ass. For all the talk on both sides of Trump being the incarnation of all that is wrong with the cosmos, he may in fact turn out to be what the GOP needs the most right now. The major GOP machinery are simply too fat, too white, too rich, too old and too male to see it. Not because he is a good candidate mind you, but because he has skewered the dying GOP once and hopefully for all, forcing them, I hope, to completely overhaul how they decide to operate in the future to get candidates elected.

Getting back to an earlier point, I enjoy British politics immensely more than I do American politics. Why? Because British politicians come across mostly as unscripted. British politicians need to be able to on their toes and thinking very quickly in order to survive. British parliament is some of the best television I've ever stumbled upon.

By contrast, our two idiot parties script every step our politicians make resulting in phony, non stick wallpaper politics.

Trump is an ego maniac but at the very least he is a breath of fresh entertainment air for those of us who no longer believe in the broken GOP.

Finally, for the liberal press to try and turn last night into some kind of Republican crisis is hilarious and pathetic. Truth be told, the liberal media is shaking in their boots over the very real possibility that Trump is going to take the criminal to the cleaners.
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Post 21 Jul 2016, 8:05 am

GMTom wrote:Boneheaded move by Cruz last night.
Instead of a message of unity and instead of doing as he had promised, Ted went and gave a speech that was critical of Trump.

Not smart!
First he alienated a lot of people with his "me first" approach and ignoring his signed pledge.
But he also set himself up for future failure
If Trump wins, Cruz is pretty much locked out of everything for 4 years (maybe 8?)
If Trump loses, then he is seen as part of that reason for the loss and few will trust him to unite the party he himself attempted to tear apart. Just a real baaaad move!

It seemed to create a minor stir at best and was all calmed down as soon as Trump appeared. I thought it was almost comical how one of the Cruz supporters was talking how they feared for his wife's life and sped her away. feared for her life? really? They shouted "Goldman Sachs" to her and booed, no threats at all.


Oh, I don't know. He certainly didn't speak about himself. Frankly, his introductory remarks were amazing.

Should he have openly endorsed Trump?

It's not so simple.

On one hand, he "failed" to keep his pledge to support the nominee. Then again, Trump made the pledge reluctantly and constantly threatened to withdraw it. Furthermore, Trump insulted Cruz's wife and said Cruz's father was involved in the assassination of Kennedy based on an article in a journal that specializes in Bigfoot stories.

If Trump wanted a public endorsement, he should have issued two public apologies. In my book, Trump deserved worse than he got last night.

And, the classy Trump folks were so threatening that his wife and dad had to be escorted from the building.