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Statesman
 
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Post 04 Oct 2017, 6:40 am

freeman3
Why didn't you make these legitimate points before, Ricky? You could reasonably argue that Dag's anecdotal observations were not enough to show that BLM is a violent entity


Here's my first comment Freeman...

Rickyp
Where's your evidence that it is violent? Isolated incidents that you refer to anecdotally ? or do you have any studies or statistical analysis? I'm willing to be convinced.

and a later one...
I'm entirely serious. I offered you a study from the Anti Defamation League...Do you have anything besides your own reactions to what you saw? I'm not discounting your reaction to what you saw.... just that it isn't really evidence its your uncorroborated eye witness testimony...


so is this accurate?
But you started with the conclusion that BLM did not commit any violent acts, therefore Dag's eyewitness accounts could not be accurate, and then demanded that he corroborate his eyewitness accounts.


Come on Man. Your now selectively reading as much as Dag or Fate.
On the night of the Ferguson riots there were hundreds of BLM protests across the US. Only a couple were violent.
but in Dags mind what he saw, or thinks he saw, trumps the reality of all those other events.
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Post 04 Oct 2017, 6:48 am

rickyp wrote:freeman3
Why didn't you make these legitimate points before, Ricky? You could reasonably argue that Dag's anecdotal observations were not enough to show that BLM is a violent entity


Here's my first comment Freeman...

Rickyp
Where's your evidence that it is violent? Isolated incidents that you refer to anecdotally ? or do you have any studies or statistical analysis? I'm willing to be convinced.

and a later one...
I'm entirely serious. I offered you a study from the Anti Defamation League...Do you have anything besides your own reactions to what you saw? I'm not discounting your reaction to what you saw.... just that it isn't really evidence its your uncorroborated eye witness testimony...


so is this accurate?
But you started with the conclusion that BLM did not commit any violent acts, therefore Dag's eyewitness accounts could not be accurate, and then demanded that he corroborate his eyewitness accounts.


Come on Man. Your now selectively reading as much as Dag or Fate.
On the night of the Ferguson riots there were hundreds of BLM protests across the US. Only a couple were violent.
but in Dags mind what he saw, or thinks he saw, trumps the reality of all those other events.


You are a jerk.

“. . . thinks he saw . . .”

You offer ZERO evidence and impeach his credibility on the basis of your “expertise?” How many BLM protests have you witnessed?

And, PLEASE, provide documentation that there were “HUNDREDS” of BLM protests on the night of the Ferguson riot.
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Post 04 Oct 2017, 7:01 am

freeman3
There are major differences between the Civil Rights movement in the 60s and the current BLM. Blacks were being denied the right to vote, they had to use separate restrooms and drinking fountains, they had to go to separate schools. With his soaring rhetoric MLK highlighted the unfairness of this glaring, unjustified inequality. His intelligence and articulateless was an exemplar of the absurdity of blacks being denied equal treatment. The peaceful marches vs violent reaction by White policeman exposed the ugliness of the reality of Jim Crow laws. And enough White Americans realized that the system was unjust and had to be taken down

The current problems are more complex, biases hidden, facts in dispute, the good and bad guys not so clear-cut, no articulate leader to lay out a convincing case. Ambiguity and complexity does not lend itself to real reform. The evidence needs to be clear-cut for Joe American to demand real change. You're not going to force change through violence but through the rightness of the cause.

The way to get that is to show systemic, unequal violence used by police against black Americans. And that is going to take painstaking examination of many thousands of cases. I do believe that black Americans are being treated unequally in the justice system and there is a good deal of evidence to support for that belief. But there needs to be a black leader who can articulate what is happening, lay out the case in black and white terms, and specify what needs to be done.


There are far more similarities than differences.
To start with, there is often no cooperation from local law enforcement or local legal jurisdictions.
Local jurisdictions fought the removal of Jim Crow laws and the enforcement of civil rights laws in the 50s and 60s. Today those local authorities fight the establishment of standards of policing and application of the law in court.
Its true that there are facts in dispute. That's part of the defence by local jurisdictions. When the FBI can't even get an accurate report of the numbers of police shootings .. then there are recalcitrant jurisdictions who don't want facts to be in evidence... But that was the same in the 60s.
Complexity and ambiguity and equivocation are all weapons for those who seek to maintain the status quo.

dag
I think I''ll take a page out of Fate's playbook on this one. Prove it

So is this an admission then that you have no postive evidence to offer other than your anecdotes?
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Post 04 Oct 2017, 7:11 am

Fate
It’s really easy: Google “number of BLM protests that turn violent.”

Unsurprisingly, the answer is not “zero.”


Did you also google "number of peaceful BLM protests"?
Or was that information you weren't interested in finding?

Peaceful protests can be turned violent by a handful of deliberate provocateurs... Or by impatient poor policing..
But, largely BLM has been peaceful So much so that..

The human rights movement Black Lives Matter has won this year’s Sydney peace prize.
The movement – which will be honoured in Sydney in November – was founded in the US by Patrisse Cullors, Alicia Garza and Opal Tometi after the 2013 acquittal of George Zimmerman, who had been accused of murdering black teenager Trayvon Martin.
Each year the Sydney Peace Foundation honours a nominee who has promoted “peace with justice”, human rights and non-violence. Past recipients include Julian Burnside, Prof Noam Chomsky and the former Irish president Mary Robinson

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 59031.html


fate
And, PLEASE, provide documentation that there were “HUNDREDS” of BLM protests on the night of the Ferguson riots

170 cities as reported here...

http://www.cnn.com/specials/michael-brown-shooting
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Post 04 Oct 2017, 8:28 am

rickyp wrote:Fate
It’s really easy: Google “number of BLM protests that turn violent.”

Unsurprisingly, the answer is not “zero.”


Did you also google "number of peaceful BLM protests"?
Or was that information you weren't interested in finding?


No, you're making the claims. I see the riots by BLM all the time. I don't see many "peaceful" protests by them.

Peaceful protests can be turned violent by a handful of deliberate provocateurs... Or by impatient poor policing..
But, largely BLM has been peaceful


What crap. Yes, poor policing . . . like Baltimore where they let the city burn?

Charlotte? https://www.thenewamerican.com/culture/ ... -blm-riots

Ferguson?

St. Louis?

Oakland?

Milwaukee? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJpWiV-zLoM

Baton Rouge? Atlanta?

How about that their credo, oft-repeated, is written by a cop-killer hiding in Cuba?

Yeah, BLM is a real "peaceful" organization. All they want to do is kill cops. "Peaceful."


So much so that..

The human rights movement Black Lives Matter has won this year’s Sydney peace prize.
The movement – which will be honoured in Sydney in November – was founded in the US by Patrisse Cullors, Alicia Garza and Opal Tometi after the 2013 acquittal of George Zimmerman, who had been accused of murdering black teenager Trayvon Martin.
Each year the Sydney Peace Foundation honours a nominee who has promoted “peace with justice”, human rights and non-violence. Past recipients include Julian Burnside, Prof Noam Chomsky and the former Irish president Mary Robinson

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 59031.html


So, the organization likes to honor Marxists?

fate
And, PLEASE, provide documentation that there were “HUNDREDS” of BLM protests on the night of the Ferguson riots

170 cities as reported here...

http://www.cnn.com/specials/michael-brown-shooting


From your link:

More than 170 protests sprouted up across the country Tuesday. Some crowds blocked bridges, tunnels and major highways. But unlike the violence that erupted in Ferguson on Monday night, most of the demonstrations were peaceful.


So, if I take "most" in its normative sense, I don't wind up with "hundreds," do I?

Thus, as usual, you were not accurate.
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Post 04 Oct 2017, 11:00 am

fate
So, if I take "most" in its normative sense, I don't wind up with "hundreds," do I?


Well, 170 protests, minus the ones' reported as having any violence comes to about 163...
So yeah.
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Post 04 Oct 2017, 11:04 am

rickyp wrote:fate
So, if I take "most" in its normative sense, I don't wind up with "hundreds," do I?


Well, 170 protests, minus the ones' reported as having any violence comes to about 163...
So yeah.


Even if your guesstimate of seven is right, 163 is not "hundreds." That would be more than 199.

Epic math fail.
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Post 04 Oct 2017, 2:26 pm

fate
I see the riots by BLM all the time. I don't see many "peaceful" protests by them


well. now you've seen evidence of 163 on the same night as the Ferguson riots....

There were many nights of protests in many many US cities... with only a handful of events disrupted by violence..
so it should evident to you and your math skills that BLM protests have been largely peaceful.
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Post 04 Oct 2017, 6:04 pm

rickyp wrote:fate
I see the riots by BLM all the time. I don't see many "peaceful" protests by them


well. now you've seen evidence of 163 on the same night as the Ferguson riots....

There were many nights of protests in many many US cities... with only a handful of events disrupted by violence..
so it should evident to you and your math skills that BLM protests have been largely peaceful.


Sorry, three guys outside a pizza joint doesn’t negate the damage of a riot. In fact, six folks outside a mall doesn’t either.

Further, I didn’t “see evidence” of squat. You, who denies eyewitness evidence expects me to take a brief summary of a multitude of events as definitive proof? I should ignore the burnt out buildings, the scores of injured, the destroyed vehicles, etc. because you have a few paragraphs of superficial approval?

No thanks.
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Post 04 Oct 2017, 8:20 pm

BLM Protest chants

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8Yqv8mnywU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-dr_IhQu-I

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVNPLPMz8Zk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJSeeyqL_Fc


MLK Protest chants

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erenla41-r8
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Post 05 Oct 2017, 7:23 am

Oh, the peace and reasonableness of BLM! It's not like it's a radical left-wing fringe group that would shout down the ACLU!

Oh. Wait. What?

Students affiliated with the Black Lives Matter movement crashed an event at the College of William & Mary, rushed the stage, and prevented the invited guest—the American Civil Liberties Union's Claire Gastañaga, a W & M alum—from speaking.

Ironically, Gastañaga had intended to speak on the subject, "Students and the First Amendment."

The disruption was livestreamed on BLM at W&M's Facebook page. Students took to the stage just a few moments after Gastañaga began her remarks. At first, she attempted to spin the demonstration as a welcome example of the kind of thing she had come to campus to discuss, commenting "Good, I like this," as they lined up and raised their signs. "I'm going to talk to you about knowing your rights, and protests and demonstrations, which this illustrates very well. Then I'm going to respond to questions from the moderators, and then questions from the audience."

It was the last remark she was able to make before protesters drowned her out with cries of, "ACLU, you protect Hitler, too." They also chanted, "the oppressed are not impressed," "shame, shame, shame, shame," (an ode to the Faith Militant's treatment of Cersei Lannister in Game of Thrones, though why anyone would want to be associated with the religious fanatics in that particular conflict is beyond me), "blood on your hands," "the revolution will not uphold the Constitution," and, uh, "liberalism is white supremacy."

This went on for nearly 20 minutes. Eventually, according to the campus's Flat Hat News, one of the college's co-organizers of the event handed a microphone to the protest's leader, who delivered a prepared statement. The disruption was apparently payback for the ACLU's principled First Amendment defense of the Charlottesville alt-right's civil liberties.

Organizers then canceled the event; some members of the audience approached the podium in an attempt to speak with Gastañaga, but the protesters would not permit it. They surrounded Gastañaga, raised their voices even louder, and drove everybody else away.


If you think the ACLU is too conservative, you're a nut--or a revolutionary.