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Post 29 Jun 2016, 3:03 pm

Doctor Fate wrote:As I understand it, the population is growing there by half a million a year, right? And, it's also not from an increase in birth rate.
Actually, our birthrate has increased. Net migration is about 300,000. The difference between births and deaths makes up the rest of the population increase.

http://news.sky.com/story/1611979/brita ... ility-rate
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Post 30 Jun 2016, 5:30 am

Danivon, we may agree more than disagree. I from the start agreed many certainly ARE xenophobic, no doubt about it! I was simply saying there were many reasons and even the immigration reasons were not all purely xenophobia either, there are indeed some valid reasons for wanting less immigration. Unfortunately, many are xenophobic reasons and even some that are not are painted as such by others.
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Post 30 Jun 2016, 7:07 am

fate
More garbage. Less than 4 million people across the country earn the minimum wage. About half are high school or college age. So what?

My main point, which you are now trying to obscure, was that most households are not dependent upon the minimum wage--which your survey proves. So, shut up


If you think it has so little impact, why is there such rabid opposition to raising it?
And if a business can't make a go of it by paying more than the current minimum wage, don't you think the owners should re-examine their business model?
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Post 30 Jun 2016, 7:20 am

Lets turn this in reverse. If it is so great for businesses, why isn't everyone doing it?

Perhaps it is an issue of personal choice. Both that of the business and the employee,
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Post 30 Jun 2016, 7:35 am

Most Brexit supporters didn't like all the change the EU brought, more immigration, more globalization, etc. The irony is that Brexit will bring vastly more change, but this will be change that the people of the UK will, in theory anyway, have control over. I think a shock to the system like this may very well be good for UK politics, stir the pot and all that, but I also think it may be good for the rest of the world. The EU gets a wake-up call: We can't be so undemocratic, the UK becomes a free agent on the world stage, inviting trade relationships and partnerships with the rest of the world.

To use the Diplomacy metaphor: the UK was little more than a Janissary to a much bigger alliance and they have broken that alliance. There is no assurances that it will find a better alliance, but it might, or it might find that it can work a better deal in their old alliance now that they understand they can't push their Janissary around anymore. It will take time, it will be difficult, and there will be risk that things don't work out well and they get eliminated, but there could be a better place on the other side.
Last edited by geojanes on 30 Jun 2016, 8:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post 30 Jun 2016, 7:45 am

While the issues are different, I am reminded of what's recently happened in Argentina and what's going on right now in Brazil. In both places we've seen, or are seeing, major political shifts that are really shaking up the system, and which have caused a lot of short-term problems, but longer-term it's clear that those changes are for the good of both countries. That short-term pain can be difficult to endure, but if it can be endured, it's possible to come out the other side much stronger.
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Post 30 Jun 2016, 8:37 am

rickyp wrote:fate
More garbage. Less than 4 million people across the country earn the minimum wage. About half are high school or college age. So what?

My main point, which you are now trying to obscure, was that most households are not dependent upon the minimum wage--which your survey proves. So, shut up


If you think it has so little impact, why is there such rabid opposition to raising it?
And if a business can't make a go of it by paying more than the current minimum wage, don't you think the owners should re-examine their business model?


Because it will have a disparate impact. Again, for something that will benefit very few we are going to change the law across the country?

No.
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Post 30 Jun 2016, 10:48 am

regarding the Diplomacy comparison,
This is all true but also like in Dip, you can't do well if you go it alone!

They need to absolutely re-establish some good working relationships with at least Germany and France, I suppose the Netherlands is pretty important as well? Get even closer with the US and Canada and if those things are done they can do well in the long term. But if the EU members are miffed and refuse to rework a good deal, if the US does what our "leader" suggested and shuns them, then it aint looking too good.
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Post 30 Jun 2016, 2:29 pm

The likelihood is that pragmatism will prevail. Angela Merkel calls the shots in the EU and Britain is Germany's 3rd biggest export market.

As for Obama, he's out of there in a few months time, and he was lying about trade talks to begin with.
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Post 01 Jul 2016, 7:52 am

fate
Because it will have a disparate impact.

But it won't. There's no evidence that employment levels or businesses have ever been affected negatively when minimum wages were increased in the past. Go on and fnd it...


fate
Again, for something that will benefit very few we are going to change the law across the country
?
A rising tide raises all boats.
Plus the domestic economy always benefits when the working class has more money to spend.
By the way, laws change all the time that advantage only a few. Usually in economic matters the few tend to be very wealthy already.

bbauska
Perhaps it is an issue of personal choice. Both that of the business and the employee,

Sure, because given a choice between a $7.25 a hour job and a $12 an hour job people will flock to the lower paying job because ?
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Post 01 Jul 2016, 8:53 am

This article notes one reason for the discontent of the working-class: wages have risen 290% in the US since 1979 (through 2014); the stock market has grown 5,300%. 3 for you, 53 for me...https://www.theguardian.com/business/us ... tral-banks

And of course the stock market recovery since 2009 has been fueled by monetary policy including quantitative easing.http://marketrealist.com/2015/06/ultra- ... olicy-led/

Share a little, man...
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Post 01 Jul 2016, 8:56 am

rickyp wrote:fate
Because it will have a disparate impact.

But it won't. There's no evidence that employment levels or businesses have ever been affected negatively when minimum wages were increased in the past. Go on and fnd it...


Of course, if you'd read my previous posts you'd know I never made the claim you ineptly batted down.

What I am saying is raising the minimum wage nationally makes no sense. Mississippians would benefit greatly. Those who live in NYC . . . not so much. The costs of living are VERY different, hence the "disparate impact" comment.

fate
Again, for something that will benefit very few we are going to change the law across the country
?
A rising tide raises all boats.


That's not only trite, it's idiotic. If raising the Federal minimum wage "raises all boats," then why not $75 an hour. That will make everyone middle class--or higher!

Plus the domestic economy always benefits when the working class has more money to spend.
By the way, laws change all the time that advantage only a few. Usually in economic matters the few tend to be very wealthy already.


Hey, why don't you just focus on making Marxism the law of the land in Canada?

bbauska
Perhaps it is an issue of personal choice. Both that of the business and the employee,

Sure, because given a choice between a $7.25 a hour job and a $12 an hour job people will flock to the lower paying job because ?


If the choice is between $7.25 an hour and no job at all, then what? https://www.washingtonpost.com/business ... story.html
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Post 01 Jul 2016, 8:57 am

freeman3 wrote:This article notes one reason for the discontent of the working-class: wages have risen 290% in the US since 1979 (through 2014); the stock market has grown 5,300%. 3 for you, 53 for me...https://www.theguardian.com/business/us ... tral-banks

And of course the stock market recovery since 2009 has been fueled by monetary policy including quantitative easing.http://marketrealist.com/2015/06/ultra- ... olicy-led/

Share a little, man...


The Fed's policy is no one's fault but the Fed.

In any event, States should set minimum wage. Let them do what they wish.
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Post 02 Jul 2016, 12:09 pm

What has the US Federal Minimum Wage got to do with Brexit, guys?
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Post 02 Jul 2016, 12:38 pm

danivon wrote:What has the US Federal Minimum Wage got to do with Brexit, guys?


If it's raised, the UK will leave the EU . . . again!