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Post 17 Jul 2016, 3:54 pm

JimHackerMP wrote:OK, Dan, whatever. Forget I even said anything.
Wish I could.
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Post 18 Jul 2016, 10:59 am

no doubt many on the exit side were being racist and are racist bigots. But it seems to us here on the other side of the pond that those who wanted to stay were trying to paint all as bigots.Any who stated anything about unchecked immigration being a problem were immediately branded as xenophobes, yet we went over several examples here of some very valid concerns.

It's much the same here in the States
If you want tough immigration laws, then you simply must be a xenophobic bigot. I happen to have my concerns but welcome legal immigrants, I am not bigoted in any way. Let Muslims in, Let Mexicans in, Let Gays in, Let Blacks in, Let WASP's in as well. But do so in a controlled way, keep our border safe and keep things in check. A free for all is not good for our economy nor is it in the UK I suspect.
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Post 18 Jul 2016, 12:00 pm

Tom, all very well and piously put.

But regardless of the fact that (as I totally agree and already said as much) the vast majority of leave voters are not bigots, there has been an increase in incidents of actual bigotry since the result.

Acknowledging that is not that same as calling all Leavers "racists".

A shame that some are more concerned about defending people I am not actually attacking, than the real victims of racism.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/cr ... 26706.html

A total of 3,076 incidents were recorded across the country between 16 and 30 June – a dramatic increase on the 915 reports recorded over the same period in 2015.

The biggest number of recorded incidents came on 25 June – the day after the result of the EU referendum – when there were 289 hate crime related incidents.
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Post 18 Jul 2016, 12:26 pm

I'd be interested to see what these 'hate crimes' actually entailed, given that police have taken a very broad brush to that definition in recent years. Nottinghamshire police recently announced that they'd be classifying wolf-whistling in the street as a hate crime, which rather begs the question of what else they and other forces have been recording. My guess is that the vast majority of the crimes recorded since the referendum have been drunken abuse, and it's probably not really a dramatic surge in the crimes themselves so much as a surge in the reporting of them as people have grown much more sensitive lately.

Either way though, this is a trivial issue. It's still a very small number which is being blown out of all proportion by the media and which in any case is almost certain to recede back to normal levels.
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Post 18 Jul 2016, 12:33 pm

From the same article:
The National Police Chiefs' Council, which released the data, found the majority of offences seen during the two-week period were “primarily harassment, common assault and other violence”.


Yes there were incidents of verbal and written abuse that you may regard as trivial. The article itself mentions a case of arson accompanied with threats against a Polish family it would be them next.

I hope you are right and it dies down. But if it does not, what will you suggest we do about it?

Not that I regard an extra 1000 incidents a week as very low.

Of course, I have a low tolerance for racism.
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Post 18 Jul 2016, 12:39 pm

I suggest we deal with it just as we would any other form of unacceptable/criminal behaviour.
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Post 18 Jul 2016, 12:54 pm

Sassenach wrote:I suggest we deal with it just as we would any other form of unacceptable/criminal behaviour.

Sure. So if it has increased, and does not as you hope go back down soon, that would include looking at the causes and motivation behind it.

We might also perhaps ponder whether wider society has a role to play in any observed trends.