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Statesman
 
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Post 02 Apr 2016, 10:04 am

In theory I don't have a problem with the concept of voter ID laws. However the realities of life in the US seem very different than other places that have voter ID laws..
Whats interesting is that as many as 9% of the Wisconsin electorate will be affected by this law. This is going to affect first the primary, and then the election.
I can't conceive that the perceived problems of voter fraud made the apparent disenfranchisement of so many people necessary.
It does appear to be nothing more than a re-jigged attempt at Jim Crow... If the stories of disenfranchisement become well known after the primary season.... will there be a back lash?

 Randle is one of 300,000 registered voters in Wisconsin, 9 percent of the electorate, who do not have a government-issued photo ID and could be disenfranchised by the state’s new voter-ID law, which is in effect for the first time in 2016. Wisconsin, one of the country’s most important battleground states, is one of 16 states with new voting restrictions in place since 2012. The five-hour lines in Arizona were the most recent example of America’s election problems. Wisconsin could be next.

http://www.thenation.com/article/wiscon ... the-polls/
http://www.thenation.com/article/wiscon ... the-polls/
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Post 03 Apr 2016, 9:29 pm

Well, according to the 2010 census, about 359,148 are African Americans. I am using their population specifically since you mentioned "Jim Crow". The total population of WI is 4,902,067. So--I'm just throwing this out there, not trying to draw a conclusion from it--8% of the population of WI is African-American.

Question is: how many African Americans and other minorities don't own a car? Or have access to one? I cannot find that information on the Census Bureau website, unfortunately.

What I do know is that, in MD, they issue non-driver State ID cards practically without question. If you go to the DMV and say you don't have a driver's license you apply for a non-driver State ID. PS, this is a former "southern" state (they had Jim Crow & segregation and all that great stuff).

I could believe that SC or MS or AL or somewhere down there would pull a trick like that (reinstate Jim Crow at the polls) but WI is another matter.

Thanks for bringing this to our attention.
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Post 04 Apr 2016, 6:10 am

Question is: how many African Americans and other minorities don't own a car? Or have access to one? I cannot find that information on the Census Bureau website, unfortunately


In 2012, African-American voters in Wisconsin were 1.7 times as likely as white voters to lack a driver’s license or state photo ID, and Latino voters were 2.6 times as likely as white voters to lack such ID. More than 60 percent of people who’ve requested a photo ID for voting from the DMV have been black or Hispanic, according to legal filings.
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Post 04 Apr 2016, 8:57 am

The case in Milwaukee sounds quite sad, but probably not the norm. His birth certificate is something HE should have. As it is, he can cast a provisional vote, and be allowed to participate. Are all the stories about people who have come from Mississippi?

As for the large amount of people not able to get ID, Wisconsin is not that large that the county seat cannot be reached in a couple of hours. It is not the government's fault they do not have photo ID.

http://www.mapsofworld.com/usa/states/wisconsin/wisconsin-county-map.html

Do you think people have any personal responsibility to do the things they need to do when it comes to voting?

Perhaps you would like people to meet them in their houses/apts and deliver the ballot to them in their beds with toast and jam as well?

If it is important (which it is!), people should make the effort; not the government.
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Post 04 Apr 2016, 9:26 am

bbauska
As for the large amount of people not able to get ID, Wisconsin is not that large that the county seat cannot be reached in a couple of hours. It is not the government's fault they do not have photo ID.


If the government demands you have it, and it is your right to have it, shouldn't it be incredibly easy to get? Instead, here's what they offer...

Right now, the dirty little open secret of Wisconsin is that just 31 of our 92 DMVs maintain normal Monday through Friday business hours. Forty-nine of them operate only two days a week. One, in Sauk City, is open for just a few days a year. Only two are open at 5 p.m., and just three are open on weekends. For the whole state.


bbauska
Do you think people have any personal responsibility to do the things they need to do when it comes to voting?

If it is much harder for a poor person, or an old person to be able to be responsible...because they have limited transportation for instance... and because the DMV and the arcane rules about identification on birth certificates make it a multi step process to prove identity then its not a law that is equally enforced.

It shouldn't cost anything to vote, and whatever identification is required should be freely and equally accessible. This isn't apparent in Wisconsin.
It also doesn't give much comfort to read...
To exacerbate matters, Wisconsin has allocated no money to educate voters about the new law, as required by the legislation, and Republicans have dismantled the non-partisan Government Accountability Board in charge of supervising elections.

If there has been no money to educate voters the law is being broken by the government, and shouldn't be enforced...
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Post 04 Apr 2016, 2:25 pm

Ricky:
However the realities of life in the US seem very different than other places that have voter ID laws...It does appear to be nothing more than a re-jigged attempt at Jim Crow... More than 60 percent of people who’ve requested a photo ID for voting from the DMV have been black or Hispanic, according to legal filings.


Americans including blacks and Hispanics are very capable and will satisfy these legal requirements over time. Yes, laws that unfairly restrict voting should be stopped. But the reality is that with just a little focus everyone can get an i.d. card. Even if someone is unfortunately frozen out in 2016, I'm sure they will get the support they need to vote in the next election. There are certainly a lot of organizations and people who will support that effort out of decency and their own self-interest.
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Post 04 Apr 2016, 2:48 pm

You're probably right, RJ. But voter suppression is as much a part of the Republican Party at this point as protecting the interests of the rich and big business.
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Post 04 Apr 2016, 2:58 pm

freeman3 wrote:You're probably right, RJ. But voter suppression is as much a part of the Republican Party at this point as protecting the interests of the rich and big business.


Are you saying the Democratic Party's hands are clean on this issue?
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Post 05 Apr 2016, 6:13 am

rayjay
Yes, laws that unfairly restrict voting should be stopped. But the reality is that with just a little focus everyone can get an i.d. card.

If the laws hadn't been passed, they wouldn't have to go out of their way to be able to use their right to vote. That's also a reality.
And the laws were created with no credible evidence of the crime they were supposed to prevent .


rayjay
Even if someone is unfortunately frozen out in 2016, I'm sure they will get the support they need to vote in the next election.

And its only poor people that really suffer the indignity anyway, right? They should be used to this sort of thing by now.

The right to vote is okay to take away with onerous restrictions.
But suggest that there should be restrictions on the right to bear arms.... and imagine the outcry. And yet the evidence that the proliferation of firearms leads to a an increase in gun violence is clear...
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Post 05 Apr 2016, 6:28 am

why are we talking about guns?
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Post 05 Apr 2016, 8:36 am

ray
why are we talking about guns?

we're talking about rights.
The right to vote, you seem to think is okay to take way from poor people until they go through unusual hoops to assert their right. Even if it means they don't get to vote this year...

My comment asks you to consider if the average person is quite so sanguine when the right to purchase or own a firearm is constrained by regulation or restrictions?
Well, maybe not average person. Average conservative politician.
I
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Post 05 Apr 2016, 8:47 am

rickyp wrote:ray
why are we talking about guns?

we're talking about rights.
The right to vote, you seem to think is okay to take way from poor people until they go through unusual hoops to assert their right. Even if it means they don't get to vote this year...

My comment asks you to consider if the average person is quite so sanguine when the right to purchase or own a firearm is constrained by regulation or restrictions?
Well, maybe not average person. Average conservative politician.
I


Do you think having to get photo ID is an unreasonable hoop to go through? You have to do that to purchase a gun. Should it be the same thing?

Let me simplify this to a one word answerable question:
Should people have to show valid photo ID in order to assert their rights of gun purchase and voting?

I say yes. What say you?
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Post 05 Apr 2016, 12:34 pm

bbauska wrote:
rickyp wrote:ray
why are we talking about guns?

we're talking about rights.
The right to vote, you seem to think is okay to take way from poor people until they go through unusual hoops to assert their right. Even if it means they don't get to vote this year...

My comment asks you to consider if the average person is quite so sanguine when the right to purchase or own a firearm is constrained by regulation or restrictions?
Well, maybe not average person. Average conservative politician.
I


Do you think having to get photo ID is an unreasonable hoop to go through? You have to do that to purchase a gun. Should it be the same thing?
Do you need a photo ID to buy a gun at an unregulated gun show?
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Post 05 Apr 2016, 1:52 pm

bbauska
Do you think having to get photo ID is an unreasonable hoop to go through?


But of course it depends on how hard it is to get the valid photo ID...
As is seen in the story on Wisconsin, for some people its remarkably difficult. When spelling mistakes on 70 year old birth certificates are a reason to not provide an ID to someone who has relatives and friends to vouch for them...who can establish residency easily... but the ID is withheld even so.... then the process is obviously rigged to exclude the poor.

As I said at the start I'm okay with the theory. Its the practice which is obviously discriminatory.

But just so you know the actual facts about the use of photo ID
Individuals can buy assault weapons without showing identification in more than 30 states, while federal law prohibits states from allowing individuals to vote without some form of identification. In recent years, 13 states have passed stricter voter ID requirements and half a dozen more are considering voter suppression measures in the aftermath of the Supreme Court ruling invalidating a key section of the Voting Rights Act.In fact, a ThinkProgress analysis found that anyone can obtain assault rifles from unlicensed dealers at gun shows or online without a background check in 39 states. Zero states allow people to vote without some proof of identification


http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2013/0 ... 0851/guns/

The above is from 2013,.... I think the issue is actually further apart now.
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Post 05 Apr 2016, 2:19 pm

danivon wrote:
bbauska wrote:
rickyp wrote:ray
why are we talking about guns?

we're talking about rights.
The right to vote, you seem to think is okay to take way from poor people until they go through unusual hoops to assert their right. Even if it means they don't get to vote this year...

My comment asks you to consider if the average person is quite so sanguine when the right to purchase or own a firearm is constrained by regulation or restrictions?
Well, maybe not average person. Average conservative politician.
I


Do you think having to get photo ID is an unreasonable hoop to go through? You have to do that to purchase a gun. Should it be the same thing?
Do you need a photo ID to buy a gun at an unregulated gun show?


Legally, yes