bbauska

Please show the verses that support your argument where works are required for salvation

Ain't my argument...
But here's a discussion of the Apostles Creed, Nicene Creed and Athanasian Creed.
It appears to me from this that there is much dissention on the central points.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_savc.htm

My point is that Fate offers his understanding of Christianity as an authority. He's an authority only on what his particular sect teaches...

Sunnis, Shiites, Sufis, Baha’is and Ahmadiyyas, Druze, Alevis, and `Alawis all are as differnt in interpreting Islam as the many Protestant denominations and Catholic denominations...
Wahabis offer a particularly severe interpretation of the religion .

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_s ... d_branches

Another reason to give pause when considering how to label Al Queda and Daesh. They are probably as different from mainstream Sunnis as Pentacostals or Puritans from Lutherans.

Doctor Fate wrote:
I've already seen you avoid the question to the best of your abilities.

And so far no-one has attempted to answer my question on the number of attacks in Europe in the past decade have been carried out by jihadists.

Which is more relevant to the thread, a fact, or your opinion of me?

danivon wrote:

Doctor Fate wrote:
I've already seen you avoid the question to the best of your abilities.

And so far no-one has attempted to answer my question on the number of attacks in Europe in the past decade have been carried out by jihadists.

Which is more relevant to the thread, a fact, or your opinion of me?

It's not my opinion of YOU.

Here, I'll do it: if I had my choice with no "out," I'd take being present at an IRA attack rather than an ISIS attack in 2016. Why? Because ISIS is clearly more intent on body count than the IRA is.

There. Not difficult. Not tricky. Not personal.

It's pretty simple: ISIS are a murderous lot; the IRA have not shown themselves to be so dedicated to killing.

rickyp wrote:bbauska

Please show the verses that support your argument where works are required for salvation

Ain't my argument...

Well you said there are lots of other sects, and mentioned there are many other sects of Islam.

If it is not your argument, why bring it up?

Do some research, man.

rickyp wrote:bbauska

Please show the verses that support your argument where works are required for salvation

Ain't my argument...
But here's a discussion of the Apostles Creed, Nicene Creed and Athanasian Creed.
It appears to me from this that there is much dissention on the central points.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_savc.htm

My point is that Fate offers his understanding of Christianity as an authority. He's an authority only on what his particular sect teaches...

Sunnis, Shiites, Sufis, Baha’is and Ahmadiyyas, Druze, Alevis, and `Alawis all are as differnt in interpreting Islam as the many Protestant denominations and Catholic denominations...
Wahabis offer a particularly severe interpretation of the religion .

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_s ... d_branches

Another reason to give pause when considering how to label Al Queda and Daesh. They are probably as different from mainstream Sunnis as Pentacostals or Puritans from Lutherans.

So, your point is . . . You have no point.

In context, all that matters is ISIS and how they think they will get to heaven/paradise. You made an irrelevant statement and now are branching into additional irrelevancies.

Do you have any evidence that ISIS is diverse (made up of several sects)? If not, your point is . . . no point at all. Then again, why would that be a surprise?

Oh, and if you're an expert on either Christianity or Islam, then why don't you explain the difference in how one gets to heaven in the two? (I'm always up for a laugh)

All very interesting, DF, but how many attacks in Europe in the past decade by jihadis?

danivon wrote:All very interesting, DF, but how many attacks in Europe in the past decade by jihadis?

Here is one possible answer. Wikipedia has this page about terror attacks in Europe - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism ... pean_Union

The graphs show that most attacks are from separatists, not "religious" motives. Although that does include failed/foiled as well as successful. But the number from "religious" looks to be in the order of about a dozen a year.

And the data source is here -https://www.europol.europa.eu/latest_publications/37

There are a lot of arrests - which suggests that our police and security forces are doing a lot to catch jihadi terrorists, and foiling a lot of potential attacks. That is important. The recent leak of ISIS data will be very useful to identify people across Europe.

danivon wrote:All very interesting, DF, but how many attacks in Europe in the past decade by jihadis?

Hundreds more deaths than by the IRA, so put that in your pipe and smoke it.

Just trying to answer your question. Sorry, I know you like to supply the answers from your own head as a gotcha, buy there you are.

"Furthermore, the number of terror attacks in Ireland over the past decade compared to the attacks in the rest of Europe by jihadists . . . which one is greater?"

So far it looks like it is a close thing, but Ireland is ahead on the numbers. By all means, prove me wrong (without changing the question - yes we know about the death rates already)

bbauska

Please show the verses that support your argument where works are required for salvation

I gave you the link to the argument about "works" and to a summary of all of the Islamic sects.

and yet you say this ...
bbauska

Well you said there are lots of other sects, and mentioned there are many other sects of Islam.
If it is not your argument, why bring it up?
Do some research, man

Do some reading man.
I brought up the notion that there are lots of interpretations of Christianity that aren't Fates...because its important to understand that religious conflicts are vast in all the major religions.
I said its "not my argument" because I don't have a view. But I know that there are lots of different views, and I respect that fact.
Perhaps Fate doesn't.
More likely Fate ignores the opinions of all other Christian sects because he sees them as wrong, and won't knowledge that Islam is as much a mosaic of interpretations as Christianity because it makes it easier to paint all Islam with a broad brush.
This is both bloody minded and simple minded.

danivon wrote:Just trying to answer your question. Sorry, I know you like to supply the answers from your own head as a gotcha, buy there you are.

"Furthermore, the number of terror attacks in Ireland over the past decade compared to the attacks in the rest of Europe by jihadists . . . which one is greater?"

So far it looks like it is a close thing, but Ireland is ahead on the numbers. By all means, prove me wrong (without changing the question - yes we know about the death rates already)

I think it's fairly simple, something even you grasp: death is worse than property damage or even injury.

rickyp wrote:bbauska

Please show the verses that support your argument where works are required for salvation

I gave you the link to the argument about "works" and to a summary of all of the Islamic sects.

and yet you say this ...
bbauska

Well you said there are lots of other sects, and mentioned there are many other sects of Islam.
If it is not your argument, why bring it up?
Do some research, man

Do some reading man.
I brought up the notion that there are lots of interpretations of Christianity that aren't Fates...because its important to understand that religious conflicts are vast in all the major religions.
I said its "not my argument" because I don't have a view. But I know that there are lots of different views, and I respect that fact.
Perhaps Fate doesn't.
More likely Fate ignores the opinions of all other Christian sects because he sees them as wrong, and won't knowledge that Islam is as much a mosaic of interpretations as Christianity because it makes it easier to paint all Islam with a broad brush.
This is both bloody minded and simple minded.

But, you did nothing save try to muddy the water on this: are Islamic terrorists trying to please Allah by their actions? So, you then start about different sects in Islam, which is a smokescreen.

I ask how many sects are in ISIS.

Answer: crickets.

rickyp wrote:bbauska

Please show the verses that support your argument where works are required for salvation

I gave you the link to the argument about "works" and to a summary of all of the Islamic sects.

and yet you say this ...
bbauska

Well you said there are lots of other sects, and mentioned there are many other sects of Islam.
If it is not your argument, why bring it up?
Do some research, man

Do some reading man.
I brought up the notion that there are lots of interpretations of Christianity that aren't Fates...because its important to understand that religious conflicts are vast in all the major religions.
I said its "not my argument" because I don't have a view. But I know that there are lots of different views, and I respect that fact.
Perhaps Fate doesn't.
More likely Fate ignores the opinions of all other Christian sects because he sees them as wrong, and won't knowledge that Islam is as much a mosaic of interpretations as Christianity because it makes it easier to paint all Islam with a broad brush.
This is both bloody minded and simple minded.

I did the reading. There are sects in Islam that are peaceful, and those that are not.

The request for you to read the bible and research Christianity was what I was asking. As of yet, that has not happened.

One Muslim's view on how to deal with the extremism growing in some Islamic circles.
[url]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXXlhKE ... ubs_digest[/url]

Let me know what you think? I truly want to know if this is what is needed.

danivon wrote:

danivon wrote:All very interesting, DF, but how many attacks in Europe in the past decade by jihadis?

Here is one possible answer. Wikipedia has this page about terror attacks in Europe - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism ... pean_Union

The graphs show that most attacks are from separatists, not "religious" motives. Although that does include failed/foiled as well as successful. But the number from "religious" looks to be in the order of about a dozen a year.

And the data source is here -https://www.europol.europa.eu/latest_publications/37

There are a lot of arrests - which suggests that our police and security forces are doing a lot to catch jihadi terrorists, and foiling a lot of potential attacks. That is important. The recent leak of ISIS data will be very useful to identify people across Europe.

It's tough to tease apart "separatist" and "religious". Many (Most?) of the separatist attacks are from Islamic separatist groups. From your wiki website, there's FLN, Black September, PFLP, Guards of Islam, Abu Nidal, Hezbollah, Islamic Jihad, CSPPA, GIA, Abu Hafs, Al Qaeda, Taimour Abdulwahab al-Abdaly, Mohammed Merah, Islamic State, and AQIY. If I leave Europe there's Boko Haram, ISIS, the Taliban (who brutally went after Christians families yesterday in Afghanistan). There's also Hamas who call for death for all Jews.

I appreciate perspective, but you are in denial if you want to talk about this as purely separatist.