View topic - The Religion of the President • Redscape

: Doctor Fate; Ambassador; Posts: 21062; Joined: 15 Jun 2002, 6:53 am

25 Apr 2011, 9:40 pm

Yes, I remember--no one's allowed to question his beliefs. That's fine. I guess.

However, I did think that once he disowned his "mentor," Jeremiah Wright, he would move on past churches that only discussed social issues and racial issues. I guess I was wrong. This is from the Easter message at the church President Obama now attends.

One has to dig into the blog notes from various reporters to piece together the content from the sermon. Aside from the First Couple being honored guests, Pastor Wallace Charles Smith also announces that his 4 week old grandson is attending church for the first time, and a pool reporter noted an interesting perspective on the infant:

"[Pastor Smith] talked about how his baby grandson's gurgling is actually "talking" because he is saying 'I am here ... they tried to write me off as 3/5 a person in the Constitution, but I am here right now ... and is saying I am not going to let anybody from stopping me from being what God wants me to be.'"

The pastor hears American institutional racism in a baby's gurgle? Do most people with infants hear Constitutional bigotry in their baby's gibberish? Did any mention of the 3/5 clause or racism in general make it into the Easter service you attended? Is this pastor's amazing leap from a baby bark to white oppression another coincidence to add to the list, or has he established a pattern of race baiting and white bashing in the past?

No great research team was needed to uncover what comes next. The fact that a YouTube search immediately grants the answer only underscores how astronomically inept/lazy/biased the media can be. This is in fact another pastor who sees racism around every corner, preaches white hatred, and equates talk radio with the Klan, specifically mentioning Rush (Limbaugh).

And, I understand he has never failed to issue a statement on a Muslim holiday, but nothing on Easter? Interesting behavior for a Christian. He also has issued messages to, for example, Iran on the occasion of Muslim holidays.

But, no one is permitted to question anything about the man. That's guilt by association.

Okay, but it's pretty weird.

On behalf of the American people, Michelle and I want to extend our best wishes to Muslims in America and around the world. Ramadan Kareem.

Ramadan is a time when Muslims around the world reflect upon the wisdom and guidance that comes with faith, and the responsibility that human beings have to one another, and to God. This is a time when families gather, friends host iftars, and meals are shared. But Ramadan is also a time of intense devotion and reflection - a time when Muslims fast during the day and pray during the night; when Muslims provide support to others to advance opportunity and prosperity for people everywhere. For all of us must remember that the world we want to build - and the changes that we want to make - must begin in our own hearts, and our own communities.

These rituals remind us of the principles that we hold in common, and Islam's role in advancing justice, progress, tolerance, and the dignity of all human beings. Ramadan is a celebration of a faith known for great diversity and racial equality. And here in the United States, Ramadan is a reminder that Islam has always been part of America and that American Muslims have made extraordinary contributions to our country. And today, I want to extend my best wishes to the 1.5 billion Muslims around the world - and your families and friends - as you welcome the beginning of Ramadan.

I look forward to hosting an Iftar dinner celebrating Ramadan here at the White House later this week, and wish you a blessed month.

May God's peace be upon you.

What did he say about Easter, the most important event in the Christian calendar? Nothing. Is it any surprise that some Americans perceive Obama as more enthusiastic about Islam than about his own self-professed faith?

Again, he has the right to do as he wishes. I think it is a bit impolitic of him to go to another church that is so race-conscious. Easter is the most important day on the Christian calendar. The Resurrection is central to the Christian faith. To hear a pastor talking about race on that day . . . hmm.

I've been accused of trying to make Obama "the other." I think he's doing a fine job all by himself.

: GMTom; Administrator; Posts: 11284; Joined: 14 Feb 2000, 8:40 am

26 Apr 2011, 5:51 am

But Steve, you can order official White House Souvenir Easter Eggs here:
http://easter.nationalparks.org/index.p ... w&ref=2010
He didn't quite fail to acknowledge Easter completely, he simply chose to concentrate on the commercialism of it instead.

: Doctor Fate; Ambassador; Posts: 21062; Joined: 15 Jun 2002, 6:53 am

26 Apr 2011, 9:10 am

GMTom wrote:But Steve, you can order official White House Souvenir Easter Eggs here:
http://easter.nationalparks.org/index.p ... w&ref=2010
He didn't quite fail to acknowledge Easter completely, he simply chose to concentrate on the commercialism of it instead.

I would totally laugh this off--100%--except he seemingly cannot divorce race and religion. I don't get it. I've been to "black" churches and I've been to "Chinese" churches and I've been to "Latino" churches. I've never been to one wherein race was mentioned, other than to say it doesn't matter "in Christ."

Somehow, the President finds two that are preoccupied with the matter of race. Coincidence or character?

: Minister X; Dignitary; Posts: 8486; Joined: 01 Mar 2002, 9:37 am

26 Apr 2011, 11:35 am

Doctor Fate wrote:...he seemingly cannot divorce race and religion.

He was selected as President of a Baptist theological seminary in Phily and served for five years. Previously, he was their first black full-time professor. HERE is the page showing their faculty. Other than Smith, just four of 27 faculty members are black. The school admits (horrors!) an interest in "social justice". Do you picture this institution hiring as their President someone they thought racist? Who "cannot divorce race and religion"? Perhaps you do.

We have evidence that on two occasions during a decades-long career he's made statements you consider (or might consider) racist. One: a metaphor about a baby's gurgling. Two: saying Obama's election doesn't mean racism has ended in the USA and calling Rush Limbaugh a racist. We can be pretty sure there have been other things said along these lines. Maybe he's even devoted his life and career to the cause of ending anti-black racism. I must admit that my knowledge of Christianity isn't as complete as your's. I would assume that it's within the spirit of Christianity to consider racial bias a sin - that it's un-Christian to enforce Jim Crow laws and be unwilling to eat next to a black person. Or live next to one. HERE is a fascinating page of city maps derived from 2010 census data, showing residency patterns by race. Is there still racism in America? Shouldn't a pastor point out where sin exists?

There are a number of Jews who spend more time exposing antisemitism than other sins. Some Japanese-Americans can't seem to stop complaining about the WWII internment. Some Armenians are obsessed with the 1915/16 genocide. We don't call them racists. And their complaints are largely about sins that have greatly subsided, whereas Smith talks about a sin of racism that's ongoing. I would think that he's being a good Christian doing so.

You complain that the Prez has found two churches where race is a subject. This second one is one he just went to for the first time, so I'm not sure how significant that is. It is a church founded by freed slaves for black people, so the fact that it's concerned with racial matters isn't all that surprising. I don't think there's a single Jewish synagogue in America where antisemitism hasn't been discussed - does this seem odd to you?

Should Barack Obama be concerned about race? Should it be mixed up with his religion? Fighting anti-black racism has been a cause intimately tied to the church. The northern abolition movement began in churches. John Brown was a preacher. Were these all bad Christians who should have kept religion and race perfectly separated? Why should a black man in America who attains political office and who now and then attends a church service take precautions to make sure that church has no interest in race and racism? It seems to me you've detected a speck of sawdust in his eye.

: GMTom; Administrator; Posts: 11284; Joined: 14 Feb 2000, 8:40 am

26 Apr 2011, 12:45 pm

Myself, I have no problem with this Minister and what he said (at least what Steve is linking) I think he's looking for a problem and manufacturing an issue out of something very minor at best.
What I do have a problem with (and minor at that!) is his silence on Easter, not a single word.
I have absolutely no problem with him wishing Muslims well on their holy days, I think he SHOULD do such a thing on all major religions major holidays. I have to believe his not mentioning Easter was an oversight, but jeeez, he just did some sort of Easter Egg roll on the Whitehouse lawn, he went to church on Easter, you would think it hard to forget all about such a big holiday?

: Doctor Fate; Ambassador; Posts: 21062; Joined: 15 Jun 2002, 6:53 am

26 Apr 2011, 12:47 pm

Minister X wrote:
Doctor Fate wrote:...he seemingly cannot divorce race and religion.

He was selected as President of a Baptist theological seminary in Phily and served for five years. Previously, he was their first black full-time professor. HERE is the page showing their faculty. Other than Smith, just four of 27 faculty members are black. The school admits (horrors!) an interest in "social justice". Do you picture this institution hiring as their President someone they thought racist? Who "cannot divorce race and religion"? Perhaps you do.

Actually, I was talking about the President of the United States. It is either an amazing coincidence that he is consistently in a church that focuses on race, or it is part of his worldview.

I would assume that it's within the spirit of Christianity to consider racial bias a sin - that it's un-Christian to enforce Jim Crow laws and be unwilling to eat next to a black person. Or live next to one. HERE is a fascinating page of city maps derived from 2010 census data, showing residency patterns by race. Is there still racism in America? Shouldn't a pastor point out where sin exists?

Actually, a pastor should point out where sin exists. However, on Easter Sunday, the focus is on sin generally and the solution to sin generally. To blast Limbaugh on Easter Sunday misses the mark, to say the least. In the same video clip, he talks about how the night before he told his "Bible study" that the KKK wore robes because of the myth that black people are afraid of ghosts.

Some "Bible study."

You complain that the Prez has found two churches where race is a subject. This second one is one he just went to for the first time, so I'm not sure how significant that is.

We live in an age wherein one can learn quite a bit about a church without going there. For example, they may have a website with a doctrinal statement, a list of activities, a blog, and even downloadable sermons. So, if it were me, and I'd been at some church that had racial problems and I was President of the US, I would make doubly sure my new church, even if I was just visiting between rounds of golf, didn't do that sort of thing.

It is a church founded by freed slaves for black people, so the fact that it's concerned with racial matters isn't all that surprising. I don't think there's a single Jewish synagogue in America where antisemitism hasn't been discussed - does this seem odd to you?

If it were the preoccupation of Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur, yes, it would seem odd.

Should Barack Obama be concerned about race? Should it be mixed up with his religion? Fighting anti-black racism has been a cause intimately tied to the church. The northern abolition movement began in churches.

Rightly so. Every Christian ought to be against slavery. Every Christian ought to be against racism. However, every Christian preacher ought to be preoccupied with the Resurrection on Easter Sunday, not on social justice. The Resurrection is the most important matter of the faith. Furthermore, a personal attack on anyone from the pulpit is unseemly. A pastor may not like Rush Limbaugh or Keith Olbermann. The pulpit is no place from which to blast them.

: Doctor Fate; Ambassador; Posts: 21062; Joined: 15 Jun 2002, 6:53 am

26 Apr 2011, 12:50 pm

GMTom wrote:I have to believe his not mentioning Easter was an oversight, but jeeez, he just did some sort of Easter Egg roll on the Whitehouse lawn, he went to church on Easter, you would think it hard to forget all about such a big holiday?

In all likelihood, this would be left to a staffer. Of course, the fact that the staffer would prioritize Muslim holidays and forget about Easter says something, doesn't it?

No, I'm not saying the President is a Muslim. No, I'm not saying this is the end of the world. I am saying what we do and how we do it often reflects our priorities. That is true of the church you choose (or if you choose not to go to church) and for the holidays you salute.

: Minister X; Dignitary; Posts: 8486; Joined: 01 Mar 2002, 9:37 am

26 Apr 2011, 3:02 pm

Obama's religious beliefs are certainly opaque, Ruffhaus. Steve: When you're right you're right. Here's what George Bush once said at an Easter breakfast he held. Why doesn't Obama do this?

Remarks by the President at Easter Prayer Breakfast

East Room

8:39 A.M. EDT

THE PRESIDENT: Thank you very much. Thank you. Please, please have a seat.

Well, it is absolutely wonderful to be here with all of you today. I see so many good friends all around the room.

Before I begin, I want to acknowledge one particular member of my administration who I’m extraordinarily proud of and does not get much credit, and that is USAID Administrator, Dr. Raj Shah, who is doing great work with faith leaders. (Applause.) Where’s Raj? Where is he? There he is right there. Raj is doing great work with faith leaders on our Feed the Future global hunger program, as well as on a host of other issues. We could not be prouder of the work that he’s doing. I also want to acknowledge Congressman Mike McIntyre and his wife, Dee. (Applause.) Mike -- as some of you know, obviously, North Carolina was ravaged by storms this past weekend, and our thoughts and prayers are with all the families who have been affected down there. I know that Mike will be helping those communities rebuild after the devastation.

To all the faith leaders and the distinguished guests that are here today, welcome to our second annual -- I’m going to make it annual, why not? (Laughter and applause.) Our second Easter Prayer Breakfast. The Easter Egg Roll, that’s well established. (Laughter.) The Prayer Breakfast we started last year, in part because it gave me a good excuse to bring together people who have been such extraordinary influences in my life and such great friends. And it gives me a chance to meet and make some new friends here in the White House.

I wanted to host this breakfast for a simple reason -– because as busy as we are, as many tasks as pile up, during this season, we are reminded that there’s something about the resurrection -- something about the resurrection of our savior, Jesus Christ, that puts everything else in perspective.

We all live in the hustle and bustle of our work. And everybody in this room has weighty responsibilities, from leading churches and denominations, to helping to administer important government programs, to shaping our culture in various ways. And I admit that my plate has been full as well. (Laughter.) The inbox keeps on accumulating. (Laughter.)

But then comes Holy Week. The triumph of Palm Sunday. The humility of Jesus washing the disciples’ feet. His slow march up that hill, and the pain and the scorn and the shame of the cross.

And we’re reminded that in that moment, he took on the sins of the world -- past, present and future -- and he extended to us that unfathomable gift of grace and salvation through his death and resurrection.

In the words of the book Isaiah: “But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.”

This magnificent grace, this expansive grace, this “Amazing Grace” calls me to reflect. And it calls me to pray. It calls me to ask God for forgiveness for the times that I’ve not shown grace to others, those times that I’ve fallen short. It calls me to praise God for the gift of our son -- his Son and our Savior.

And that’s why we have this breakfast. Because in the middle of critical national debates, in the middle of our busy lives, we must always make sure that we are keeping things in perspective. Children help do that. (Laughter.) A strong spouse helps do that. But nothing beats scripture and the reminder of the eternal.

So I’m honored that all of you have come here this Holy Week to join me in a spirit of prayer, and I pray that our time here this morning will strengthen us, both individually as believers and as Americans. And with that, let me introduce my good friend, Bishop Vashti McKenzie, for our opening prayer. (Applause.)

As you might have guessed, it wasn't George Bush who made these remarks, it was none other than Barack Obama. source

Regarding what's preached in Jewish synagogues on the high holy days: first let me say I'm no expert, having attended only one - a reformed one at that - and having paid very little attention. But my guess is that if Steve thinks antisemitism isn't mentioned he'd be surprised by the results of a scientific survey. Just my guess. More to the point: Jews have an entire holiday - second only to the two he mentioned in importance, and maybe not even - devoted to racial prejudice. Unlike the High Holy days it has excellent food, games for the children, and an at-home service that often lasts for hours in addition to what goes on in the temple. Passover commemorates the freeing of the slaves from Egypt. I'm sure that a lot of Passover sermons this past week were more critical of Rush Limbaugh than Pastor Smith's was. Even more to the point: Steve thinks Smith was out of line mentioning politics on Easter; maybe he simply couldn't resist the unprecedented opportunity the presence of the Prez gave him: a more bully pulpit than he's ever had before. It would be understandable.

BTW: neither Reagan or Bush ever issued an Easter Proclamation. But Fox pulled the wool over viewers' eyes:

EDIT - pic didn't show. Try THIS

You've been hoodwinked, Steve.

: danivon; Ambassador; Posts: 15994; Joined: 15 Apr 2004, 6:29 am

26 Apr 2011, 3:20 pm

Wow, Steve. I'm impressed. I really didn't think you'd be so driven as to miss out that Obama actually did talk about Easter in your zeal to smear him.

Zealotry is a powerful thing, for sure.

: danivon; Ambassador; Posts: 15994; Joined: 15 Apr 2004, 6:29 am

26 Apr 2011, 3:21 pm

By the way, all these threads by Republicans on here, and not one mention of Ensign? Anyone would think you were hoping no-one had noticed

: Doctor Fate; Ambassador; Posts: 21062; Joined: 15 Jun 2002, 6:53 am

26 Apr 2011, 3:21 pm

Minister X wrote:Obama's religious beliefs are certainly opaque, Ruffhaus. Steve: When you're right you're right. Here's what George Bush once said at an Easter breakfast he held. Why doesn't Obama do this?
Remarks by the President at Easter Prayer Breakfast

Yeah. All I was talking about was the pastor and why Obama chose that church. You think it's incidental and irrelevant. Okay, that's your right.

Jews have an entire holiday - second only to the two he mentioned in importance, and maybe not even - devoted to racial prejudice. Unlike the High Holy days it has excellent food, games for the children, and an at-home service that often lasts for hours in addition to what goes on in the temple. Passover commemorates the freeing of the slaves from Egypt. I'm sure that a lot of Passover sermons this past week were more critical of Rush Limbaugh than Pastor Smith's was.

Passover is about "racial prejudice?"

Wow. I guess I thought it was a commemoration of the deliverance of the Jewish people from captivity by God.

Again, I miss the whole race angle. My bad.

BTW: neither Reagan or Bush ever issued an Easter Proclamation. But Fox pulled the wool over viewers' eyes:
littlegreenfootballs.com - 2011-04-26 - 16h-04m-17s.png

Hmm, we seem to not be communicating well. I don't really care that Obama didn't put out an Easter proclamation. What I find interesting is that no effort is spared to reach out to the Islamic world, including issuing proclamations for many Muslim holidays, but Obama isn't so much interested in reaching out to Christians. Whatever.

You've consistently got a blindspot with regard to religion--as does LGF.

: Doctor Fate; Ambassador; Posts: 21062; Joined: 15 Jun 2002, 6:53 am

26 Apr 2011, 3:25 pm

danivon wrote:By the way, all these threads by Republicans on here, and not one mention of Ensign? Anyone would think you were hoping no-one had noticed

What? That he's resigning? Start a thread. Feel free.

You've got a myriad of scandals on the Democratic side. Rangel's still in office.

But, go ahead. Tell us all that you know about Ensign--in another forum.

You've missed the point on Obama and Easter, but you've got excellent company.

It was a political point: the man who spent 20 years listening to hate at Wright's church picks a church for Easter that . . . teaches hate. MX disagrees, or feels all churches do it.

That's fine. You all are welcome to your opinions.

: danivon; Ambassador; Posts: 15994; Joined: 15 Apr 2004, 6:29 am

26 Apr 2011, 3:26 pm

Steve, he held an Easter Breakfast and made a speech about Christianity. That is 'reaching out' in some way, surely? You clearly either didn't know or ignored it in favour of trying to launch yet another attack on the guy by association with a preacher who (shock horror!) mentions race a couple of times a decade. I suppose your church is all about the love, and has no bad words about anyone at all, right? It's not like the seminary you went to would have, for example, been set up by a guy who thought that the Catholics were anti-christian or anything, right?

After your thread complaining that the President had not interfered with the judicial process to 'expedite' a case up to the USSC, and several dozen beforehand, a pattern is emerging.

When your obsession with the President gets this bad, don't you figure you may need to see a professional for some help?

: Doctor Fate; Ambassador; Posts: 21062; Joined: 15 Jun 2002, 6:53 am

26 Apr 2011, 3:32 pm

Oh, and Danny boy--why not just change your Avatar's name to "me too."

Danivon wrote:Steve, he held an Easter Breakfast and made a speech about Christianity. That is 'reaching out' in some way, surely? You clearly either didn't know or ignored it in favour of trying to launch yet another attack on the guy by association with a preacher who (shock horror!) mentions race a couple of times a decade.

On . . . Easter Sunday. And, he mentions it "a couple of times in a decade?" You know this how? Scoured the archives, have you?

After your thread complaining that the President had not interfered with the judicial process to 'expedite' a case up to the USSC, and several dozen beforehand, a pattern is emerging.

Tripe. He and Holder ARE interfering. They are fighting against it being expedited. You might think that's grand. However, IF it is struck down (no sure thing, I'll grant you), tens of millions of dollars (or more) will have been wasted on preparing for a law that will never take effect.

Why fight it going to the USSC? It's going to end up there anyway? It is not an abuse of Presidential power to expedite a case that has vast implications and costs.

Either way the case goes, it would be infinitely better for the country for it to be decided sooner rather than later.

When your obsession with the President gets this bad, don't you figure you may need to see a professional for some help?

When your obsession with me is such that you can only snipe and not provide any original thoughts, it's pretty obvious your therapist is on vacation.

: danivon; Ambassador; Posts: 15994; Joined: 15 Apr 2004, 6:29 am

26 Apr 2011, 3:43 pm

Doctor Fate wrote:Oh, and Danny boy--why not just change your Avatar's name to "me too."

I nicknamed him Pyotr.

On . . . Easter Sunday. And, he mentions it "a couple of times in a decade?" You know this how? Scoured the archives, have you?

Was he actually telling his congregation to kill whitey? Or was he challenging the comfortable myth that the USA has no problems with race relations?

When your obsession with me is such that you can only snipe and not provide any original thoughts, it's pretty obvious your therapist is on vacation.

when you bother to construct an argument that's not just a standard right wing talking point, and when you concede that Obama did reach out and talk about Christianity at an Easter-based event this year, contrary to your earlier assertions, then you can criticise my style with impunity.

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The Religion of the President