freeman3 wrote:In general, it's pretty easy to get an indictment. Care to try and refute that proposition? generally, grand juries are secret so we don't get to see transcripts.

As for fun and games comment that is not referring to the videos but the undercover shenanigans that CMS pulled. If they committed a crime in obtaining the videos then they should be punished. Don't you agree? Or should we not publish individuals who commit crimes because they are on our side politically?

The Hot Air piece was a smear and was not a legitimate claim of conflict of interest. Period. It was very bad journalism .

My last paragraph was pure speculation. Withdrawn.

Did they do anything a journalist would not do?

The lawsuit filed in federal court in San Francisco against anti-abortion group the Center for Medical Progress alleges conspiracy and fraud among other violations in connection with the recordings.
The videos, which were released in July, sparked widespread controversy by purporting to show Planned Parenthood officials trying to negotiate prices for aborted fetal tissue.
Under federal law, donated human fetal tissue may be used for research, but profiting from its sale is prohibited.
"This case is about a network of anti-abortion extremists and the laws they broke in order to spread lies and harm Planned Parenthood," Dawn Laguens, vice president of Planned Parenthood Federation of America, said on a conference call.

bbauska wrote:I am all for publishing grand jury transcripts. I would love to see the transcript on ALL indictments regardless of politics. Here are a few that we could all be more knowledgeable about:

Clinton Email scandal
Flint water scandal
Clinton perjury scandal (Blue dress et. al.)
EPA misconduct with Green River spill
FIFA
VA misconduct
Fast and Furious
Enron

I am sure the list could be even bigger...

rickyp wrote:fate

Did they do anything a journalist would not do?

Yes.
And for two of those things, they have been indicted

And for others, they are being sued.
That they have been indicted bodes well for the success of PP's lawsuit.

The lawsuit filed in federal court in San Francisco against anti-abortion group the Center for Medical Progress alleges conspiracy and fraud among other violations in connection with the recordings.
The videos, which were released in July, sparked widespread controversy by purporting to show Planned Parenthood officials trying to negotiate prices for aborted fetal tissue.
Under federal law, donated human fetal tissue may be used for research, but profiting from its sale is prohibited.
"This case is about a network of anti-abortion extremists and the laws they broke in order to spread lies and harm Planned Parenthood," Dawn Laguens, vice president of Planned Parenthood Federation of America, said on a conference call.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-p ... M020160114

danivon wrote:

bbauska wrote:I am all for publishing grand jury transcripts. I would love to see the transcript on ALL indictments regardless of politics. Here are a few that we could all be more knowledgeable about:

Clinton Email scandal
Flint water scandal
Clinton perjury scandal (Blue dress et. al.)
EPA misconduct with Green River spill
FIFA
VA misconduct
Fast and Furious
Enron

I am sure the list could be even bigger...

Well, not all of those went to a grand jury. And it can be argued that releasing such details would be prejudicial before a trial (or even after one, or in the absence of one). If charges came direct from the police or prosecutors, rather than a grand jury, what do you think should be released? Too much could compromise that and other investigations.

And against the others, we already know far more than we ever need to about Clinton & Lewinsky.

And, on the merits, PP was selling baby parts. If that thrills your soul, well, shame on you

The videos show Planned Parenthood doctors discussing the donation of fetal tissue after abortions -- a legal practice. But the CMP edited the videos into episodes that make it look as though Planned Parenthood is selling fetal parts for profit and changing abortion methods to deliver intact specimens. The family planning provider strongly denies both charges, and five separate state investigations into Planned Parenthood have cleared the organization of any wrongdoing.

rickyp wrote:Fate

And, on the merits, PP was selling baby parts. If that thrills your soul, well, shame on you

.

You are clinging to an absurd position, as tightly as any conspiracy nut.

The videos show Planned Parenthood doctors discussing the donation of fetal tissue after abortions -- a legal practice. But the CMP edited the videos into episodes that make it look as though Planned Parenthood is selling fetal parts for profit and changing abortion methods to deliver intact specimens. The family planning provider strongly denies both charges, and five separate state investigations into Planned Parenthood have cleared the organization of any wrongdoing.

Here's the independent analysis of the videos... They are fabrications and do not reflect truth. That is called slander and not something journalists do...
And its why they will be sued into financial oblivion. Justly.

http://ppfa.pr-optout.com/ViewAttachmen ... vK5fVC8%3d

Which states?

“Over the past week, my office has conducted a thorough review and found that
Planned Parenthood League of Massachusetts’ health care centers are fully
compliant with state and federal laws regarding the disposition of fetal tissue,”
Massachusetts’ attorney general said in a statement. “Although donation of fetal
tissue is permissible under state and federal law, PPLM does not have a tissue
donation program. There is no evidence that PPLM is involved in any way in
the buying or selling of tissue. As such, our review is complete” (Boston
Globe. “Planned Parenthood ‘fully compliant’ with law, Healey says” July 29,
2015).
 “The state Health Department says it hasn't received any reports or evidence
that the sale of fetal tissue has occurred in South Dakota since the
department started regulating abortion facilities in 2006” (KLDT News. “Health
Department: No Evidence Of Fetal Tissue Sale In State” August 12, 2015).
 Similarly, in Kansas, an open records’ request from the Associated Press
revealed that an ongoing investigation into Planned Parenthood’s practices is
equally unfounded. There is not, nor has there ever been a tissue donation
program in the state. “A review of the state's records indicate that no fetal
tissue transfer reports have ever been filed with KDHE," Michael Smith, a
department attorney and its open records officer, said in an e-mail. Officials have yet
to announce the end of their investigation, even though there is clearly nothing to
investigate (Star Tribune, “APNewsBreak: Kansas receives no reports on handling
of fetal tissue during past 15 years” August 6, 2015).
Citing no evidence of wrongdoing, eight states have declined to investigate
Planned Parenthood and politicians from across the nation have called the
allegations baseless.
 Officials in Delaware, Idaho, Minnesota, New York, New Hampshire, Virginia,
Washington, and Colorado have declined to investigate Planned Parenthood,
citing no evidence of wrongdoing.
 Virginia Governor Terry McAuliffe pushed back against state lawmakers calling
for an investigation, “We in Virginia have no instances, no evidence, no
complaints of any of this.” A spokesman for Governor McAuliffe, said the
video shouldn’t be used as “fodder for political attacks on women’s access
to health care.”
 Minnesota Governor Mark Dayton said: "As far as I'm concerned there's no basis
for an investigation at taxpayer expense into a private nonprofit organization that
has stated they don't engage in those practices here in Minnesota.”
 New Hampshire Governor Maggie Hassan said: "We do not launch
investigations in the state of New Hampshire on rumor. We do not launch
criminal investigations in the state of New Hampshire because somebody
edits a tape."
 New York Governor Andrew Cuomo said: “Planned Parenthood is a critical
healthcare provider for the people of New York, and I will fight for them day in
and day out.Here in New York, we will not defund Planned Parenthood – not now
and not in the future.”
 Washington Governor Jay Inslee said: “Planned Parenthood provides millions of
women across the country access to a full range of affordable health care and
family planning services. National extremist organizations are engaged in a
concerted effort to discredit, and ultimately eliminate, an organization that
so many women rely on. Here in Washington State, where we have long fought
to protect women’s access to family planning services, Planned Parenthood is on
the front lines of women’s health care. I stand with them in their efforts to ensure
every woman needing access to safe and legal reproductive health care can get
it.”
 Idaho Governor Butch Otter declined to investigate Planned Parenthood
citing no evidence of any wrongdoing. “I have been in contact with Planned
Parenthood officials here in Idaho and they assured me that these practices do
not occur in Idaho or within the states that make up Planned Parenthood of the
Great Northwest.”
 The Delaware Division of Public Health issued a letter to legislators stating
simply: “There is no tissue donation program at Planned Parenthood to
investigate.
Politicians have launched investigations into Planned Parenthood in a number of
other states, including Arizona, Kansas, Louisiana, Missouri, Ohio, South
Carolina, and Texas – all states where Planned Parenthood does not even
offer fetal tissue donation as an option to patients.

rickyp wrote:Fate

Which states?

You could actually look it up.

“Over the past week, my office has conducted a thorough review and found that
Planned Parenthood League of Massachusetts’ health care centers are fully
compliant with state and federal laws regarding the disposition of fetal tissue,”
Massachusetts’ attorney general said in a statement. “Although donation of fetal
tissue is permissible under state and federal law, PPLM does not have a tissue
donation program. There is no evidence that PPLM is involved in any way in
the buying or selling of tissue. As such, our review is complete” (Boston
Globe. “Planned Parenthood ‘fully compliant’ with law, Healey says” July 29,
2015).
 “The state Health Department says it hasn't received any reports or evidence
that the sale of fetal tissue has occurred in South Dakota since the
department started regulating abortion facilities in 2006” (KLDT News. “Health
Department: No Evidence Of Fetal Tissue Sale In State” August 12, 2015).
 Similarly, in Kansas, an open records’ request from the Associated Press
revealed that an ongoing investigation into Planned Parenthood’s practices is
equally unfounded. There is not, nor has there ever been a tissue donation
program in the state. “A review of the state's records indicate that no fetal
tissue transfer reports have ever been filed with KDHE," Michael Smith, a
department attorney and its open records officer, said in an e-mail. Officials have yet
to announce the end of their investigation, even though there is clearly nothing to
investigate (Star Tribune, “APNewsBreak: Kansas receives no reports on handling
of fetal tissue during past 15 years” August 6, 2015).
Citing no evidence of wrongdoing, eight states have declined to investigate
Planned Parenthood and politicians from across the nation have called the
allegations baseless.
 Officials in Delaware, Idaho, Minnesota, New York, New Hampshire, Virginia,
Washington, and Colorado have declined to investigate Planned Parenthood,
citing no evidence of wrongdoing.
 Virginia Governor Terry McAuliffe pushed back against state lawmakers calling
for an investigation, “We in Virginia have no instances, no evidence, no
complaints of any of this.” A spokesman for Governor McAuliffe, said the
video shouldn’t be used as “fodder for political attacks on women’s access
to health care.”
 Minnesota Governor Mark Dayton said: "As far as I'm concerned there's no basis
for an investigation at taxpayer expense into a private nonprofit organization that
has stated they don't engage in those practices here in Minnesota.”
 New Hampshire Governor Maggie Hassan said: "We do not launch
investigations in the state of New Hampshire on rumor. We do not launch
criminal investigations in the state of New Hampshire because somebody
edits a tape."
 New York Governor Andrew Cuomo said: “Planned Parenthood is a critical
healthcare provider for the people of New York, and I will fight for them day in
and day out.Here in New York, we will not defund Planned Parenthood – not now
and not in the future.”
 Washington Governor Jay Inslee said: “Planned Parenthood provides millions of
women across the country access to a full range of affordable health care and
family planning services. National extremist organizations are engaged in a
concerted effort to discredit, and ultimately eliminate, an organization that
so many women rely on. Here in Washington State, where we have long fought
to protect women’s access to family planning services, Planned Parenthood is on
the front lines of women’s health care. I stand with them in their efforts to ensure
every woman needing access to safe and legal reproductive health care can get
it.”
 Idaho Governor Butch Otter declined to investigate Planned Parenthood
citing no evidence of any wrongdoing. “I have been in contact with Planned
Parenthood officials here in Idaho and they assured me that these practices do
not occur in Idaho or within the states that make up Planned Parenthood of the
Great Northwest.”
 The Delaware Division of Public Health issued a letter to legislators stating
simply: “There is no tissue donation program at Planned Parenthood to
investigate.
Politicians have launched investigations into Planned Parenthood in a number of
other states, including Arizona, Kansas, Louisiana, Missouri, Ohio, South
Carolina, and Texas – all states where Planned Parenthood does not even
offer fetal tissue donation as an option to patients.

And Texas grand Jury?
Its clear they found nothing at PP.
But found sufficient evidence that CMP should be charged .
hard to paint lipstick on that pig.

bbauska wrote:Will you feel the same what about other indictments if they come about as you do with the PP indictment? I can only hope you would treat them with the same standard.

Interesting: the CMP folks were indicted for attempting to buy body parts. Of course, you can't do that if:

1. There is no seller.
2. There are no "parts."

Think about that

Questions you didn't answer:

In responses from 38 attorneys general to date, not one AG office provided evidence that it has ever had cause to prosecute a physician for delivering and then killing a viable fetus, indicating that this notion—that there are multiple cases of fetuses surviving an abortion, only to be killed by a doctor—is a confection of the anti-choice camp, designed to replace fact-based arguments with the lowest form of fear-mongering.

rickyp wrote:The PP was not selling body parts. The videos you are referring to are fabrications.

Partial birth abortion is both illegal and before made illegal was only 0.17% of abortions. Very, very rare.

There is no such thing as baby surviving an abortion.

In responses from 38 attorneys general to date, not one AG office provided evidence that it has ever had cause to prosecute a physician for delivering and then killing a viable fetus, indicating that this notion—that there are multiple cases of fetuses surviving an abortion, only to be killed by a doctor—is a confection of the anti-choice camp, designed to replace fact-based arguments with the lowest form of fear-mongering.

http://rhrealitycheck.org/article/2013/ ... abortions/

The answers provided by states show that Gosnell was, in fact, a rogue provider, and that there is no evidence of a pattern of infants being “born alive” after an abortion, much less of doctors killing infants in those circumstances. (Pennsylvania’s attorney general told RH Reality Check that it did not have a copy of what it had sent to the House Judiciary Committee, or whether it had in fact replied to the committee’s inquiry.)

The federal government confirms a large number of babies survive failed abortions. In 2011, the CDC recorded 1,298 cases of infant death in the U.S. due to “Other perinatal conditions,” which includes ICD-10 category P96.4, death subsequent to a failed “termination of pregnancy.”

For the record, Fate, I believe in the right of women, in consultation with their doctor, to choose abortion before the 22nd week or so... I would prefer that women had access to freely available birth control, and that all young people had comprehensive educations about sexuality before they became sexual active ...

(Abortion) was a hard won right.

Making abortion illegal doesn't end abortions, it only endangers women. In order to limit abortions, effective prevention is the best option.