Join In On The Action "Register Here" To View The Forums

Already a Member Login Here

Board index Forum Index
User avatar
Statesman
 
Posts: 11324
Joined: 15 Aug 2000, 8:59 am

Post 18 Apr 2011, 2:58 pm

What do you think of this Chicago Principals policy? Does it make sense that if parents can't send a nutritious lunch with their children that they should be, essentially, replaced? Does an inability to properly feed your children constitute a form of abuse?

It's not news that obesity is a serious and growing concern in the United States (and, increasingly, a problem in Canada, too). The American Centers for Disease Control (CDC) has a disturbing map on their website, showing the increase in obesity rates across the 50 states in yearly increments since 1985. The blue (healthy) states dominate as late as 1998. But by 2009, the colour-coded map of America looks like nothing so much as beautiful fall foliage, all oranges, yellows and reds, representing states where at least 20% of adults are obese. But the problem is not confined to adults, and is starting to have shocking health effects on children, including the early onset of diabetes and hardening of arteries usually only seen in unhealthy adults. According to the CDC, in 2008, the rate of obese children (0-17 years old) hit slightly more than 18%.

One elementary school principal in Chicago, concerned with the health of her students, has taken an unorthodox step: It has banned parents from sending their child to school with a homemade lunch. Children, unless suffering from a severe food allergy or another documented medical condition, must eat what is served in the school's cafeteria. This step was taken in response to what parents were sending their kids to school with for lunch: Soda pop and potato chips.

Unsurprisingly, this has not proven to be a universally popular step. Many of the kids are unhappy with the food that is being offered, but it's unclear whether that's because they would rather be eating greasy, salty fat and washing it down with cola, or if -as is certainly possible for a cafeteria -the alternative on offer is simply bad. Some parents are also upset at what they view as unwelcome interference in their role as their child's guardian. J. Justin Wilson, a researcher at the Center for Consumer Freedom, when interviewed by local media on the subject, raised a sensible objection: What if a parent wishes to send their child to school with a lunch that's even healthier than what the school is serving? He calls it another example of the government's propensity towards futile, one-size-fits-all solutions (one hopes that no pun was intended).

And then there's the money issue. Some of the children at the school qualify for a free lunch, or a partially subsidized lunch, because they come from low-income homes. For the others, the school charges a fee of $2.25 a day, per student. For a family with two kids in the school, that doesn't qualify for any state assistance, that's more than $22 a week. For those families that just barely escape qualifying for assistance, it's going to add up. Besides, setting aside the grander themes of parental choice and liberty itself, it's sad that a parent who wishes to lovingly carve a sandwich into the shape of a heart or slip a note into their child's lunch box is forbidden from doing so.

Those are the objections. But there are those who support the idea, including the school's principal, who says it came down to a choice to let the children keep drinking soda or make sure they get a glass of milk now and then. It will sound like state intervention to many, and indeed, it is exactly that. But if the childhood obesity epidemic is to be tackled, bromides about children being best off in the hands of their parents or warnings about government one-size-fitsall solutions aren't going to cut it. Adults should have the right to gorge themselves on whatever sweet or salty snack they favour, but does the right to parenting your own way extend to parenting in a way that will physically harm, and perhaps eventually kill, your child? It's not as clear cut as outright abuse, but it's not nothing, either.

Environmental factors such as upbringing and socioeconomic class are major contributors to the obesity epidemic (genetics are, too, of course, but can't be helped). With 34% of Americans classified as obese with another 32% deemed medically overweight, it needs to be asked where the kids are expected to learn healthy eating habits if not in school -fully two-thirds of the adults are bad role models in that regard, and simply might not know how to prepare a healthy meal without highcalorie, processed foods. Teaching the kids at a young age the fundamentals of healthy eating, and making sure they eat at least one healthy meal a day, might help to correct what is a rapidly becoming the leading public health risk in North America.

Simply banning lunches is extreme, as consumers should be given choice, and even children need to learn moderation eventually. The duty of the school should be to make sure it's an informed choice, by educating children from a young age what is good for them and what isn't, since it is clear that many of the kids simply aren't getting those lessons at home. The cafeteria should certainly serve up healthy meals as the default option, but keep in mind that it's OK to spoil kids with a tasty treat every now and then so long as they learn the healthy habits they'll need for a lifetime early on. If parents want to reinforce that at home, they should be commended for doing their duty. Many of their peers aren't.

source: http://www.nationalpost.com/news/Throwing+parents+lunchroom/4632549/story.html
User avatar
Administrator
 
Posts: 7390
Joined: 26 Jun 2000, 1:13 pm

Post 18 Apr 2011, 3:15 pm

The problem with your initial premise, RickyP; is the word "if". The parents have not had the lunch evaluated for nutrition. The school board is taking a generality of all parents ability provide a nutrient rich lunch. Until that evaluation, the school is over-reaching in it's policy.

Perhaps you think you can force people to take part in this government program as well?
User avatar
Administrator
 
Posts: 11284
Joined: 14 Feb 2000, 8:40 am

Post 18 Apr 2011, 6:25 pm

Myself, I would have simply not eaten, let them try and force feed me. Yes, I was that stubborn in grammar school and one day I forgot my lunch, the school insisted I buy lunch, I never ever liked what they had and I didn't eat it that day, The teachers or lunchroom people tried and tried to get me to eat, a trip to the principals office didn't make me eat either. I would never have eaten the slop (nutritious or not) that they served and not eating would be worse wouldn't it?

Maybe I'm an exception to the rule but there have got to be others like me. That and this constant intrusion on what you eat is what drove one of my daughters to an eating disorder, not a big fan of such a policy. If you can prove gross malnutrition of some sort, fine, make a case of it on a case by case basis. PB&J and a twinkie is good enough in my book.
User avatar
Dignitary
 
Posts: 5456
Joined: 07 Mar 2005, 9:12 am

Post 18 Apr 2011, 7:57 pm

I tend to favour the right of the state to intervene when parents are neglecting or abusing their children, but this strikes me as overkill. Like Tom says, it really ought to be a case-by-case approach.

That said, I would definitely be in favour of mandatory nutrition classes for parents. Forcing parents to learn about the health consequences of feeding crap to their kids is a more reasonable imposition on their roles as primary caregivers.
User avatar
Administrator
 
Posts: 7390
Joined: 26 Jun 2000, 1:13 pm

Post 18 Apr 2011, 8:50 pm

Paid for by taxpayers, I assume? Perhaps you would force people to have to pay for the class rather than tax people without children?
User avatar
Truck Series Driver (Pro II)
 
Posts: 895
Joined: 29 Dec 2010, 1:02 pm

Post 18 Apr 2011, 10:22 pm

In WA any median income family with at least two kids is going to qualify for subsidized lunches at the $0.40 a meal, it's free for lower income families. The USDA is behind it all bankrolling the meals and setting the nutritional standards. Breakfasts are also provided for free or nearly free for median income families. They serve complete crap for every meal. How could parents do worse? It would be seriously difficult.

I asked the local paper to do an investigative report on the matter last year, which they did. The school district just pointed to the USDA nutritional guidelines and said that they met or exceeded them. Nothing has changed. I can't imagine with the nearly free meals that are handed out to the majority of the students that there would be many children being sent sack lunches that are more unhealthy than what the school is serving.

The poorer students are eating two meals a day there five days a week, and summer feeding programs are in place to help at risk children. We know that obesity is highest in the poorest populations. So apparently the schools are a big part of the problem as they are one of the main sources of food stuffs for children all across the US.

This health epidemic is breaking the bank on our ability to pay for healthcare. I think it's likely that public health messages and public understanding of what constitutes good nutrition are dead wrong as obesity rates sky rocket. I reference back to our previous thread discussing public health.
User avatar
Truck Series Driver (Pro II)
 
Posts: 895
Joined: 29 Dec 2010, 1:02 pm

Post 18 Apr 2011, 10:34 pm

Let's look at Chicago: "Chicago Public Schools serves approximately 120,000 breakfasts and 280,000 lunches every day. That equates to 14.2 million breakfasts and 47.6 million lunches annually. Some 86 percent of CPS students qualify for free or reduced lunch"
Nachos for lunch? Yes, every day

It's lunchtime in a North Side high school, and the cafeteria lines snake into the hall. One line leads to fish nuggets, iceberg lettuce and canned peaches. Another is for burgers and breaded chicken patty sandwiches.

But the longest line leads to lunch workers grabbing paper dishes full of yellow corn chips, topping them with a ball of ground meat and then smothering the ensemble in hot orange cheese product.

Nachos, once an occasional indulgence at the ballpark or a festival, have become a staple entree in the Chicago Public Schools and other districts. The dish is on the menu every day in the city's high schools and regularly offered to younger students as well.

So they're ready to go after some small percent of kids on sack lunches when the vast majority are on an endless nacho spree via the USDA?
User avatar
Administrator
 
Posts: 11284
Joined: 14 Feb 2000, 8:40 am

Post 19 Apr 2011, 6:02 am

Peanutbutter and jelly followed by a Twinkie chased down by a carton of milk is bad compared to that crap I suppose?
I understand if some kid comes to school constantly with a box of snack cakes and candy bars, but again, case by case basis is the way to go and not treating everyone like a criminal from the get-go. And trust me, this attention they spend often goes the other way, eating disorders are worse than ever, the more attention the school gives to weights and what you "should" weigh, "should" eat and so on only sends sensitive young girls over the edge and into anorexia and/or bulemia (however it' spelled, it sucks, take it from me I know all about it!!!)
User avatar
Ambassador
 
Posts: 21062
Joined: 15 Jun 2002, 6:53 am

Post 19 Apr 2011, 8:01 am

They ban soda. They ban chips. They ban chocolate milk.

Heck suggests mandatory parental training.

Here's another idea: get out of my life!

What gives the State the right to dictate everyone's lives because a few fail? My kids were not malnourished, so why do I need to go to a government-mandated program? Is there no limit on what the State can do?

They have banned a number of games from schoolyards because they create winners and losers. Then, they complain because kids don't exercise. Logically, kids who don't exercise become heavy. The answer? Government programs to solve a problem caused by government regulations.

Leave us alone!

What's next? Because some kids are sexually abused, should the government presume ALL are and thus have carte blanche into our homes? Free pass to interview every child because "you never know?"

Is there any limit to the reach of government? Really. Any at all?
User avatar
Administrator
 
Posts: 7390
Joined: 26 Jun 2000, 1:13 pm

Post 19 Apr 2011, 8:51 am

http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2011/04/19/2011-04-19_classic_kids_games_like_kickball_deemed_unsafe_by_state_in_effort_to_increase_su.html

Where does it end, Heck? If CPS deems a child nutrient deficient, then use the court (something the left is good at). Until then it is the parent's responsibility to raise the children.
User avatar
Administrator
 
Posts: 11284
Joined: 14 Feb 2000, 8:40 am

Post 19 Apr 2011, 9:34 am

One thing I never understood and still don't is gym class / phys ed
Don't get me wrong, I am all for sports and I am all for kids being fit.

But the argument for it is to keep kids fit?
If the only exercise a kid gets is in his gym class one hour twice a week, the kids going to be fat.
And those fat kids or less athletic types are picked on and made to feel inferior in such a "class"

My solution (If I were king)
Teach the basic education classes and at the end of the day you have elective time for kids, in this time they must pick from several choices, here you would have your art classes, Music classes, Sports, Drama, Home Economics, Shop classes, etc. Kids must pick several (not sports only or art only, etc) this allows kids to migrate to what they enjoy and they will be better at this class while avoiding being picked on for being less athletic, having a poor singing voice, no creative artistic talent, etc. If some kid has no gym class, so what? Does that 2 hours a week really matter as it is?

Then in your gym class you can have REAL sports with winners and losers. You have no pathetic nerds being blasted by dodge balls as they hide against a wall that is more like a firing range. No kids with zero musical talent forced to play the freaking triangle ...ding!
it only makes sense.

But no, we hear from those who insist on making kids well rounded when nobody really believes that crap to begin with, human nature makes us all different and we all migrate to what we like, why force things? Instead we try to force kids into these situations and invent stupid rules like no winners and losers to try and fix the system that obviously doesn't work.
User avatar
Truck Series Driver (Pro II)
 
Posts: 895
Joined: 29 Dec 2010, 1:02 pm

Post 19 Apr 2011, 9:43 am

Any homeschooler will tell you it only takes 2hrs a day to do your core work. That means in a 7hr day you have 5hrs for instruction, eating, exercise, and electives.

Food reformer Jamie Oliver was banned from the LA Unified School District, here's his interview with John Stewart. It's stands to reason that Chicago isn't much different than LA and that the move toward forcing all kids onto school lunches is just a measure to reinforce the status quo and not a real effort to intervene in kids eating poorly.
User avatar
Ambassador
 
Posts: 21062
Joined: 15 Jun 2002, 6:53 am

Post 19 Apr 2011, 9:46 am

When I was a kid, we played "Greek dodge" during recess. We played football, basketball, softball. We had PE every day in Jr. High. Your grade was based on participation, not skill or results. If you did not take a shower afterward, you got in trouble.

I don't recall being traumatized even though I was not the best. I was a competitor. I liked that.

It doesn't take a village or a government to raise a kid. It takes two parents who care.

For those not blessed in this way, help should be given. However, the government should not, indeed cannot, presume ALL children are in need of nannying.

Kids as young as 6 "need" to learn about homosexuality, but the government must protect them from the evils of "tag" and other traditional children's games.

Oy.
User avatar
Truck Series Driver (Pro II)
 
Posts: 895
Joined: 29 Dec 2010, 1:02 pm

Post 19 Apr 2011, 9:53 am

I just learned one of my friends is in a kickball league. How cool is that to be playing kickball in your 30s.
User avatar
Statesman
 
Posts: 11324
Joined: 15 Aug 2000, 8:59 am

Post 19 Apr 2011, 10:42 am

I take it that basically you guys (Steve anyways) argue for the status quo.

I don't know that banning home lunch is a great idea, (And its lousy if the food at the school isn't appetizing and healthy) but its an attempt to answer this problem.

With 34% of Americans classified as obese with another 32% deemed medically overweight, it needs to be asked where the kids are expected to learn healthy eating habits if not in school -fully two-thirds of the adults are bad role models in that regard, and simply might not know how to prepare a healthy meal without highcalorie, processed foods. Teaching the kids at a young age the fundamentals of healthy eating, and making sure they eat at least one healthy meal a day, might help to correct what is a rapidly becoming the leading public health risk in North America.


So Steve, is your "leave us alone" attitude actually going to affect positive results in this problem? Or don't you care about the problem?