Wow, NA. This Reagan guy is the hero of the conservative movement. Could it be that the hard right wing has taken over the GOP?

Maybe even more:

"If American workers are being denied their right to organize and collectively bargain when I'm in the White House, I'll put on a comfortable pair of shoes myself," Obama said at a speech in 2007. "I'll walk on that picket line with you as president of the United States of America because workers deserve to know that somebody is standing in their corner."

His administration won't even send lesser figures to lend support.

But that was only a campaign promise, we can't expect him to actually mean anything he said can we?

And that has what to do with Wisconsin Legislation?

Faxmonkey wrote:

Archduke Russell John wrote:and have I not already said I don't think money is speech. My questions is why can some be limited and other not?

I really don't have a problem with either. I'm just a bit sceptical about the motives of the Governor of Wisconsin and the republican majority there. Wasn't there something about police and firefiighters being exempt from the bill that strips collective bargaining powers from the unions ? And weren't those the unions that supported him ?

Don't believe the hype.

Walker tells CBS News’ Chris Wragge:

There are 314 fire and police unions in the state. Four of them endorsed me. All the rest endorsed my opponent.

NewsBusters’ Noel Sheppard has an impressive roundup of newspaper headlines and other proof for those not inclined to take Walker’s word for it.

When the dust settles, if the Wisconsin electorate recalls the GOP Senators, the State will face tax increases. It would not surprise me. Wisconsin is a state wherein the Democratic/union forces are particularly rabid. And, it's not like the media will tell the truth (see the above claims about union support for Walker).

Doctor Fate wrote:When the dust settles, if the Wisconsin electorate recalls the GOP Senators, the State will face tax increases.

And? given that they have a large deficit and the Governor decided to bring in tax cuts as soon as his feet were under the table, is that such a hardship?

Here's the thing, if you want to balance the budget, there is a chance that it means people paying a bit more in tax.

As it is, the whole union battle thing meant that they still didn't get the actual financial package through - as I understand it, the bill was split so that the removal of collective bargaining could pass without the 20 Senator quorum.

Hey, here's my prediction. If the GOP are still running Wisconsin in a year's time, they will either have increased taxes, or they will see an even bigger deficit.

danivon wrote:

Doctor Fate wrote:When the dust settles, if the Wisconsin electorate recalls the GOP Senators, the State will face tax increases.

And? given that they have a large deficit and the Governor decided to bring in tax cuts as soon as his feet were under the table, is that such a hardship?

Here's the thing, if you want to balance the budget, there is a chance that it means people paying a bit more in tax.

Nothing revs up an economy like a good tax increase, eh? It also makes WI so much more competitive with neighboring states, right?

I thought you were the econ guy? Raising the cost of doing business will increase the number of jobs???

As it is, the whole union battle thing meant that they still didn't get the actual financial package through - as I understand it, the bill was split so that the removal of collective bargaining could pass without the 20 Senator quorum.

Right. Which is just terrific. From now on, every time a party is in the minority they'll just run for the hills. Why even have elections?

Hey, here's my prediction. If the GOP are still running Wisconsin in a year's time, they will either have increased taxes, or they will see an even bigger deficit.

I'll take that bet. Walker will not increase taxes.

Doctor Fate wrote:Nothing revs up an economy like a good tax increase, eh? It also makes WI so much more competitive with neighboring states, right?

And perhaps the would not have a budget crisis had they not been cutting taxes? They cut them in January, and then decided that the deficit was too high. What kind of fiscal hawk can defend that idiocy?

I thought you were the econ guy? Raising the cost of doing business will increase the number of jobs???

Depends on the taxes. Taxing the wealthy in times like these has a low effect. Taxing the poor and middle has a greater effect. Similarly tax reductions - reducing taxes for the wealth does not mean they spend much more in times like these. But for people at the bottom, it represents a larger increase in disposable income.

Right. Which is just terrific. From now on, every time a party is in the minority they'll just run for the hills. Why even have elections?

Well, why have constitutions and parliamentary rules if we just live in a populist majoritarian dictatorship? Get the quorum rules changed, just like you should get the rules on filibusters changed at the US Congress, or accept that if the rules allow certain behavior, then it will happen.

Hey, here's my prediction. If the GOP are still running Wisconsin in a year's time, they will either have increased taxes, or they will see an even bigger deficit.

I'll take that bet. Walker will not increase taxes.

Maybe he won't. Want to bet that the deficit will be lower in 12 months, or that the GOP will still be in a majority in the Wisconsin Congerss by then?

danivon wrote:

Doctor Fate wrote:Nothing revs up an economy like a good tax increase, eh? It also makes WI so much more competitive with neighboring states, right?

And perhaps the would not have a budget crisis had they not been cutting taxes? They cut them in January, and then decided that the deficit was too high. What kind of fiscal hawk can defend that idiocy?

Please prove this was THE cause of the budget gap. If you are able to do so, I will cede the argument.

Depends on the taxes. Taxing the wealthy in times like these has a low effect.

Interesting. So, all the money sitting on the sidelines right now--if taxes were lowered, it would still sit there? If they were raised, it would have no impact?

Taxing the poor and middle has a greater effect.

That's why our liberal governor, the forerunner of President Obama, raised sales taxes and highway tolls because he wanted to shaft the lower classes?

Well, why have constitutions and parliamentary rules if we just live in a populist majoritarian dictatorship?

I'm fairly certain no one envisioned the minority party running away when they created the quorum rules.

I'll take that bet. Walker will not increase taxes.

Maybe he won't. Want to bet that the deficit will be lower in 12 months, or that the GOP will still be in a majority in the Wisconsin Congerss by then?

Yes and yes.

Doctor Fate wrote:Please prove this was THE cause of the budget gap. If you are able to do so, I will cede the argument.

Of course it was not the only cause of budget gaps (the tax cuts of 2003 were also a factor, and historic deficits as well). But it was hardly a good way to start balancing the budget.

Depends on the taxes. Taxing the wealthy in times like these has a low effect.

Interesting. So, all the money sitting on the sidelines right now--if taxes were lowered, it would still sit there? If they were raised, it would have no impact?

Pretty much. It would not likely be spent on starting new businesses, because now is a really risky time to do so.

Taxing the poor and middle has a greater effect.

That's why our liberal governor, the forerunner of President Obama, raised sales taxes and highway tolls because he wanted to shaft the lower classes?

Sorry, is this the governor of Wisconsin, or the Governor of Illinois? Is that relevant? Whatever happens, if you have a budget that has spending, then people have to pay taxes. Sales taxes are not great (highway tolls, well, depends how they keep track with other costs), I agree. But if you are going to scattergun and try and find all kinds of Democrats who I will disagree with, then we could be playing silly games all day. Newsflash - I think Democrats can be idiots too.

I'm fairly certain no one envisioned the minority party running away when they created the quorum rules.

And I'm sure that no-one envisioned someone reading out of a phone book when filibuster rules were put in place. But the rules allowed it.

I'll take that bet. Walker will not increase taxes.

Maybe he won't. Want to bet that the deficit will be lower in 12 months, or that the GOP will still be in a majority in the Wisconsin Congerss by then?

Yes and yes.

Ok, so what is the current Wisconsin deficit?

"A Wisconsin state judge has issued a temporary restraining order blocking implementation of Gov. Scott Walker’s union-busting bill. Judge Maryann Sumi ruled that Republican lawmakers were likely in violation of the state open meeting laws when it pushed through the legislation two weeks ago."

Is this the same "Open meeting" that the Democratic senators chose to not attend?

In her mind I would bet so!
What a lesson, don't show up then complain how it's unfair you were not heard.