Why don't you answer my questions first?
By the way, what indisputable facts did that opinion piece show?
They state a few undisputable facts with their opinion. That Goldstone was a minor author of the Goldstone report and that the other authors have disputed his statements.
It is not just the ultra religious that support West Bank settlement. You view it as land for peace.
Final Borders and Territorial Exchange [/url]
Among Palestinians 49% support or strongly support and 50% oppose or strongly oppose an Israeli withdrawal from the West Bank and the Gaza Strip with the exception of some settlement areas in less than 3% of the West Bank that would be swapped with an equal amount of territory from Israel in accordance with a map that was presented to the Palestinian respondents. The map was identical to that presented to respondents in August 2009, when support for this compromise, with its map, stood at 49% and opposition at 50%.
Among Israelis 49% support and 43% oppose a Palestinian state in the entirety of the West bank and the Gaza Strip except for several large blocks of settlements in 3% of the West Bank which will be annexed to Israel. Israel will evacuate all other settlements, and the Palestinians will receive in return territory of similar size along the Gaza Strip. In August 2009 47% of the Israelis supported this component while 48% opposed it
To answer your questions, Israel is a democracy and will adjust its military expenses as it sees fit
By the way Ray, I quoted from Ray Falk only as an example of a viewpoint prevalent with pre-Palestinians. Not as an endorsement of the man's opinions in general.
I asked how real it is...
In the same way that the military industrial complex exagerates the need for military investment by the US by exagerating the threat, I think the actual physical threat tio Israel by military invasion is exagerated. And its exagerated for political reasons as well.
And the threat is exagerated even more, if Palestine, which is also a democracy by the way, can be developed into a good neighbor.
As the Arab awakening takes affect, and as democracy grows over the next couple of decades, Israel won't be a unique democracy. Indeed Palestine is rapdily demonstrating that deomcracy can be practiced in arab countries. The idea that we should support Israel over Arab threats because its the only democracy will fall away. Then the question will be essentially whether or not the borders and authories between two democracies represent a just resolution.
Ray Jay wrote:rickyp wrote:As the Arab awakening takes affect, and as democracy grows over the next couple of decades, Israel won't be a unique democracy. Indeed Palestine is rapdily demonstrating that deomcracy can be practiced in arab countries. The idea that we should support Israel over Arab threats because its the only democracy will fall away. Then the question will be essentially whether or not the borders and authories between two democracies represent a just resolution.
Do you think it is hubris to have such certainty about the future?
The crowded urbanized society argument doesn’t wash, Ricky. If that society thinks it’s okay to invite/accept/tolerate terrorists firing rockets into Israel from hospitals, schools, orphanages, and the like, then they are complicit in the action
danivon wrote:RJ - stopping the settlements would not simply be a 'PR' matter. It would demonstrate that the Israelis were serious about sticking to their agreements with others and their own laws. Even if that didn't encourage Palestinian leaders to do the same, it would certainly lead to more support than a simple PR move. If the settlements were largely removed, it would also reduce the need for quite a bit of Israeli security.
I gather that you also support Syria's request/demand that Israel return the Golan Heights? Certainly you are not going to argue that religion or economics is driving that issue?
No, I'm not at all surprised. The use of 'you people' is also not much of a shock either. And apparently i'm the one lacking 'respect'?RUFFHAUS 8 wrote:I guess this will not shock anyone, but I am struggling to understand why you people think that Israel is wrong to encourage their people ‘settle’ in the "Settlements" within their own nation.