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Post 15 Feb 2011, 1:10 pm

Yeah, I know, we can't (supposedly) slash the budget immediately as that would impact the fledgling recovery. However, what kind of "leadership" is it that professes to make "difficult choices" while spending more . . . and more . . . and more.

Interesting though--liberal Democrats are playing this like it's the Republicans' fault:

The federal deficit is growing at an alarming rate. Without some correction, our deficit will continue to explode. The deficit for the next two years is projected at more than $1 trillion annually, and the overall deficit projection for the next decade is more than $7 trillion. Deficits like this are unsustainable and only lead to a downward cycle of forcing us to take on more debt.

Not only do interest payments on this debt threaten to overwhelm the budget, but if our national debt continues to skyrocket to somewhere between 75 percent and 95 percent of gross domestic product over the next decade (far beyond the 60 percent that most economists consider the highest level of sustainable deficit), it threatens America’s credit rating. A downgrade in the country’s credit rating would create an economic crisis that would make the last two years seem like a dress rehearsal for something devastatingly bigger.

Voters understand this problem. A recent CBS poll found that 56 percent of the country realizes that the deficit needs immediate action. This is where things get tricky because Republicans have long believed that attacking the deficit should coincide with an attack on the social safety net through cuts to federally funded Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid and education.

Unfortunately for Republicans, hardly anyone seems to agree with them. CNN found last month that less than 25 percent of people support cuts from any of those areas in order to reduce the budget deficit. As a result, Republicans have instead pivoted to “deficit reduction” through cuts to nondefense discretionary spending.

In doing so, the GOP Conference leadership avoided identifying specific programs — worried that voters would balk once they knew which programs face cuts — and instead offered across-the-board cuts that avoid the hard choices. They coupled this with budget-busting tax cuts for the wealthiest 2 percent and an effort to repeal a health care law that would reduce the deficit by over $200 billion.

This is not a serious approach to reducing the deficit.

Nondefense discretionary spending makes up less than half of discretionary spending. More meaningful cuts should come from bloated defense spending, for example, a cut supported by 50 percent of the voters.

More importantly, the Republican rules package, the rules that the majority party sets for the House at the beginning of each Congress, specifically took the cost of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan off-budget. Stopping our enormous open-ended investment in Afghanistan would reduce our long-term debt by more than $1 trillion and do more to cut the deficit than any of the Republican Party’s supposed deficit reduction efforts, such as the Republican bill to end public financing of campaigns.

Rep. Tom Cole (R-Okla.), my colleague on the Budget Committee who introduced that bill ­— H.R. 359 ­— estimated that it would save $617 million over 10 years. That’s roughly the same savings we would realize in two days from ending our involvement in an endless war in Afghanistan. Every day we stay in Afghanistan, we add more than $325 million to our debt.


Let's say he's right about Afghanistan. If we left tomorrow, we would still have a trillion dollar deficit, or nearly so, next year. So, I've seen other Democrats complain Republicans aren't taking on entitlements.

Who is in charge of 2/3 of the legislating/spending triangle (House/Senate/President)? Where is the Presidential leadership on entitlements?Andrew Sullivan has noticed:

The crisis is the cost of future entitlements and defense, about which Obama proposes nothing. Yes, there's some blather. But Obama will not risk in any way any vulnerability on taxes to his right or entitlement spending to his left. He convened a deficit commission in order to throw it in the trash. If I were Alan Simpson or Erskine Bowles, I'd feel duped. And they were duped. All of us who took Obama's pitch as fiscally responsible were duped.

The cynical political calculation is obvious and it is well put by Yglesias and Sprung. If Obama backs Bowles-Simpson, the GOP will savage him for the tax hikes, while also scaring the wits out of the elderly on Medicare. The Democratic left - just look at HuffPo today - will have a cow. Indeed, if Obama backs anything, the GOP will automatically oppose him. He has to wait for a bipartisan agreement which he can then gently push ahead. But that's exactly why we are in this situation today.


I think the GOP, especially Ryan and Boehner, have made it clear they would be willing to deal on entitlements. It's not the GOP that has used Social Security as a club. The Democrats were the ones using animation of GWB pushing a woman in a wheelchair off a cliff, etc.

The problem is that Obama will not push too hard on his liberal base. They might have to give him this or that, but entitlement reform? No way. He's not going to do it, so we are looking at this:

Image

Is Obama really this spineless?

Obama's game is transparent, isn't it? He is playing a game of chicken. He puts forward a series of proposals that he knows are more or less insane; but he also believes that Republicans will come to his rescue. They, not being wholly irresponsible, will come up with plans to reform entitlements--like, for example, the Ryan Roadmap. Ultimately, some combination of those plans will be implemented because the alternative is the collapse, not just of the government of the United States, but of the country itself. But Obama thinks the GOP's reforms will be unpopular, and he will be able to demagogue them, thus having his cake and eating it too. Is that leadership? Of course not. But it is the very essence of Barack Obama.


The right thing to do would be to meet behind closed doors with Ryan, come to an agreement, then sell it to the American people over the howls of the far left (and probably some on the far right). It would, if done properly, guarantee him reelection and bring fiscal sanity to our country. Unfortunately, I think he is ideologically incapable of leaving liberal orthodoxy--big government is good government.

WaPo writer,Dana Milbanks, wasn't fooled either:

Obama's budget proposal is a remarkably weak and timid document. He proposes to cut only $1.1 trillion from federal deficits over the next decade - a pittance when you consider that the deficit this year alone is in the neighborhood of $1.5 trillion. The president makes no serious attempt at cutting entitlement programs that threaten to drive the government into insolvency.

Contrast that with the proposal by the heads of Obama's fiscal commission, who outlined a way to cut $4 trillion from deficits through 2020, rein in entitlement spending, overhaul the tax code and reduce the government's debt load. As commission co-chair Erskine Bowles, former chief of staff in Bill Clinton's White House, told The Post's Lori Montgomery, Obama's budget is "nowhere near where they will have to go to resolve our fiscal nightmare."
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The best explanation the White House has come up with, uttered privately, is that Obama didn't want to step out too far with politically unpopular cuts before congressional Republicans propose their own. And it's true that Republicans haven't yet committed to including entitlement reforms in their own 2012 budget. But even that doesn't justify Obama's feeble budget document, which squanders the little momentum built up by the fiscal commission.

As administration officials came out to defend the indefensible budget Monday, they had little to work with beyond cliches.

"The budget that we sent to Congress today is a responsible plan that shows that we can live within our means and we can also invest in the future," Lew began.


To live within our means would mean not spending more than we are bringing in. This budget doesn't come close.

And, no, I don't think this just became an issue. I've been railing about fiscal issues for a long time. GWB spent like a drunken sailor. Obama is spending like a meth addict who just found someone else's credit-card-filled wallet.

Can we get a grown-up in the White House? Please?
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Post 15 Feb 2011, 1:38 pm

There can't be any serious action taken against the deficit unless all of the major shibboleths are addressed: taxes, social security, medicare, and defense. And not just tinkering with them either...changing them all so much that it hurts.
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Post 15 Feb 2011, 1:43 pm

The problem isn't just Obama, it isn't just Democrats, Republicans (so far) have failed to do anything but talk about the problem either. Hey, at least they are talking about it and at least they SAY the right things but what have they really done? That answer is the same thing as the Democrats ...nothing.
Stop talking, start doing!
That can force the Democrats to follow suit, but my feeling is nobody wants to really be the one to make such hard cuts, they will certainly be tough to do, for every program slashed they lose voters and the only way to do anything substantial will entail affecting everyone so it hurts us all and when it hurts, the fear is we will retaliate with our votes going to the other guys.
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Post 15 Feb 2011, 1:48 pm

GMTom wrote:The problem isn't just Obama, it isn't just Democrats, Republicans (so far) have failed to do anything but talk about the problem either. Hey, at least they are talking about it and at least they SAY the right things but what have they really done? That answer is the same thing as the Democrats ...nothing.
Stop talking, start doing!
That can force the Democrats to follow suit, but my feeling is nobody wants to really be the one to make such hard cuts, they will certainly be tough to do, for every program slashed they lose voters and the only way to do anything substantial will entail affecting everyone so it hurts us all and when it hurts, the fear is we will retaliate with our votes going to the other guys.


I'm not blaming just Obama. The debt is a long-time coming. However, he is responsible for the deficit and for failing to even seriously address the debt from becoming larger. Planning on more deficit spending is not 'living within our means."

The GOP will release a budget soon. I suspect it will be far more "within our means," but may not be enough to "risk" being demagogued. I hope they are more bold than I believe they will be.
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Post 15 Feb 2011, 3:08 pm

Bankruptcy is an excellent solution to insolvency. SS, Medicare, and basic defense can all be paid out of current revenues. Fractional reserve banking is all theoretical anyways. They want us to believe that bankruptcy is impossible and that someday we must enslave ourselves for the good of the banking/debt system. It's a paper tiger at best.
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Post 15 Feb 2011, 3:12 pm

Neal Anderth wrote:Bankruptcy is an excellent solution to insolvency. SS, Medicare, and basic defense can all be paid out of current revenues. Fractional reserve banking is all theoretical anyways. They want us to believe that bankruptcy is impossible and that someday we must enslave ourselves for the good of the banking/debt system. It's a paper tiger at best.


Nice! So, the US declaring bankruptcy won't set off a panic and collapse financial markets?
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Post 15 Feb 2011, 3:46 pm

I'm all for responsibility, but I just see no merit in believing the political regime has any intentions of resolving it's largess. The Patriot Act was expanded, the military budget was increased, so I'm hard pressed to believe they even have the capacity to do anything about this debt problem.

I don't think they've quite hit absolute insolvency yet, but the pill has been swallowed if you count future liabilities. But really it's all just silliness, they make money out of thin air, incur giants debt, make those same debts disappear at will.

I suspect the tipping point comes when the burden of the debt system outweighs the uncertainty of wiping out the current order.
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Post 15 Feb 2011, 4:02 pm

Here's some interesting research on public attitudes to government spending.

http://pewresearch.org/pubs/1889/poll-f ... te-budgets

Although the US public wants to cut government spending, when you get to specifics people are very reluctant to cut. Already I am receiving requests to support federal spending on public radio (from some friends). Meanwhile there's talk of supporting home heating assistance in New England (do we really have to make people choose between food and fuel?) while my own passion for science is frustrated by talks of cuts to NASA. No one wants to tackle the real issues (medicare, social security, over extended military) because of public support. With that Pew research a politician basically risks his job by tackling this urgent issue. I really support those few Republicans who are willing to get out in front of these issues. It takes courage!

Overall, it is up to the President to provide leadership on this issue, and he is just not up to the task. The problem with waiting for the tipping point is that we don't know where it is, and when we find out it will be too late.
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Post 15 Feb 2011, 4:05 pm

One other important thought. When more baby boomers such as myself start to retire and collect social security and medicare (or at least get closer and think about it some more) it will get even harder to cut these programs. Once you are on the dole, so to speak, it is very hard to say, no thanks, cutting the deficit is more important.
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Post 16 Feb 2011, 2:14 am

I would imagine that very little will happen till 2012, no one wants to give the other side a leg up in the upcoming election.
After that - no matter who wins - there'll be a bloodbath. Cuts to everything + a substantial tax hike to get the budget out of the crapper. Or the rest of us ditch the dollar for some other reserve currency and go our marry way, while you replay the greek tragedy.
Just my opinion though, but you guys really seem a$$broke.
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Post 16 Feb 2011, 7:02 am

I would imagine that very little will happen till 2012, no one wants to give the other side a leg up in the upcoming election


Perhaps the problem is too many elections? Every two years seems to frequent a period to allow a government the period of time to enact unpopular but necessary changes...
A Canadian example: In the early 90's the Liberals were elected with a majority after 8 years of profligate spending by the Tories and immediately went on an austerity program. Necessary because debt had reach 92% of GDP.
With up to 5 years before a mandated election, and an unassailable majority, they had time for the effects to take place.
In the States, unpopular but necessary steps are more difficult to "ride out" because there is always another election cycle about to change the balance...
Obama's come out in the mushy middle and will probably adopt some republican policies in order to demonstrate flexibility and willingness to compromise. But, it may not be correct.
The extension of the tax cuts that went to the rich probably should have been a line in the sand in deficit reduction.... But again, timing seems to be against reasonable action becasue the public wants its cake and wants to eat it too.
Last edited by rickyp on 16 Feb 2011, 12:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post 16 Feb 2011, 9:16 am

Ray Jay wrote:One other important thought. When more baby boomers such as myself start to retire and collect social security and medicare (or at least get closer and think about it some more) it will get even harder to cut these programs. Once you are on the dole, so to speak, it is very hard to say, no thanks, cutting the deficit is more important.


I am hoping against hope that the President's tepid budget proposals are not just a set up. History is replete with Democrats going after Republicans on entitlement cuts. The President seems to have been daring the Republicans to go first. When they do, how will he respond?

The Republicans know history. If they want to survive, they need to make and, saturate the airways with, short ads that explain they are not cutting current entitlements and how bad the situation is. Meanwhile, we can count on Pelosi, Hoyer, and other Democrats to hit new heights of demagoguery. They've already started--the $100B in current fiscal year cuts the GOP is going to propose will allegedly cost nearly 1M jobs according to one Democrat.

I guess we're going to find out how grown up the electorate is.
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Post 17 Feb 2011, 2:34 pm

Okay, now the President is just lying:

“The one that we can solve right now if we get together in a sensible kind of way is the amount of debt we’re working with on an annual basis, our annual deficits,” The president said. “My budget freezes spending for five years and what that does is solve the short term problem by saying we’re not going to spend anymore money than we’re taking in. That requires some painful cuts in certain areas, some cuts that I’d prefer not to have to do, but I think it’s important for us to get that right.”


Hello! If that was true, he would not be projecting a $1.1T deficit next year.

In other words, Obama’s budgets don’t actually cut overall spending at all. Spending rises by 30% in real terms over the ten-year projections, and publicly-held debt (which excludes that held by the Social Security Administration) rises by 57% in the same period. Instead of limiting mandatory spending, Obama attempts to hide discretionary spending by transferring pet areas of spending into the mandatory category. It’s a three-card Monty attempt to distract from Obama’s agenda of continued federal spending and regulatory adventurism while claiming fiscal responsibility.

How many times does a politician get to repeat an easily disprovable “factually incorrect” statement before it can be called a lie?


What is scary is that he might actually get reelected.
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Post 17 Feb 2011, 3:54 pm

That $1.1T projection is lower than the 2011 deficit. Looks like things are improving.

Do you expect a deficit to be eradicated in two years, during a period of recession and nascent recovery? It's simply not possible to do.

I should remind you that before Obama took office, the budget deficit was projected to be well over $1T. So clearly it must be his fault for inheriting it.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/08/busin ... ficit.html

Deficits go up during recessions. Especially when you let a bank fail and then bail out the rest of them to stop a chain-reaction.

Deficits should fall during a recovery (looks like they are). The real measure is what the 'structural deficit' is. which is what the deficit would be in a period of solid growth (not a recovery, actual growth back on track). Unfortunately, you can't tell what that is very easily unless you are in a period of decent growth.

We do know that the US was running a structural deficit of around $400Bn a year before the recession, and that will have been made worse just by the fact of the recession.
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Post 17 Feb 2011, 4:24 pm

danivon wrote:That $1.1T projection is lower than the 2011 deficit. Looks like things are improving.


:laugh:

Wait. You're not joking?

President Obama has increased discretionary spending by, what, 84% in two years? How many more federal employees (I believe it's 200K).

Where are the tough cuts? Where is the leadership? I guarantee you that I could and would substantially lower the deficit--and that virtually no one would notice a change in their daily lives. Where does he mention getting Medicare and Social Security, which total scores of trillions of dollars in unfunded liabilities, on even keels?

Do you expect a deficit to be eradicated in two years, during a period of recession and nascent recovery? It's simply not possible to do.


But, he just set a record!

I expect him to show a modicum of leadership. So far, none.

I should remind you that before Obama took office, the budget deficit was projected to be well over $1T. So clearly it must be his fault for inheriting it.


Please. The President reminds me three times a day.

At the very least, he could stop lying about spending only what we take in. Is that too much to ask?