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Adjutant
 
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Joined: 17 May 2013, 3:32 pm

Post 14 Feb 2020, 8:44 am

Stop and frisk was based on what they call a Terry Stop, which allows a police officer to briefly detain someone if they have reasonable suspicion that they committee a crime. The Wikipedia article presented figures that 90% of those stopped were Latino or African-American (as opposed to their overall percentage of the population being 54%), primarily being the ages of 14-24; 70% were later determined to be innocent; at the height of the program almost 700,00 stops (for comparison there are about 10,000 now) were made with 88% not resulting in a fine or conviction.

Yes, safety is important but the police have to operate in a race-neutral fashion. And going into poor neighborhoods with high rates of crime and stopping large numbers of young Latino and Black men based on vague suspicions of their being involved in a crime is not an acceptable policy. There is aggressive policing...and then there is unconstitutional policing. When almost 9 out of ten those stopped you don't bother charging, that indicates that stops are being made without sufficient justification.

And was the policy really to protect people in those communities or was it rather to prevent them from coming into wealthier areas and committing crimes? Maybe the policy helped to reduce crime, I don't know, but even if it did it ignores constant police intrusion among many Blacks and Latinos who have done nothing wrong. This kind of focus on minorities with regard to policing is certainly not limited to New York, as particularly young black men across the country have historically received differential attention from police even if they are law-abiding citizens.
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Adjutant
 
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Post 14 Feb 2020, 9:04 am

Stop and frisk started to decline after 2012 (532,911 in 2012, 191,851 in 2013, 45,787 in 2014 etc). Violent crime rates continued to drop after that (though it looks like there was an uptick in 2019 in murder numbers according to the NY Times)

http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/nycrime.htm
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Post 14 Feb 2020, 4:01 pm

Ray Jay wrote:
freeman3 wrote:I already did not like Bloomberg trying to buy the Democratic nomination. But that 2015 video where he justifies stop and frisk and the consequences for minorities with such casual disregard for the effects of that policy on minorities, indicates a level of bias/prejudice against minorities that should disqualify him from the nomination.


I agree that Bloomberg's remarks are insensitive, but from a policy perspective I tend to believe that stop and frisk does more good than harm. If you were to poll people who live in poor urban areas in the US, I wonder whether they generally support the police taking a hard line for the sake of their safety. I don't know … I just wonder. Prejudice is bad, but safety is priceless.


I can say emphatically that 100% of the people I know who were stopped and frisked during this time hated it, and hate his guts. In one case it happened with one guy who had his little girl with him. Granted, I'm talking 3 people, but it was generally bad for the people who were targeted, and I'm sure 90+% of those folks will tell you that it was BS. You might find some older women of color who weren't targeted who might agree with you, though.

It was wrong, but I'd still vote for him if he got nominated. If you're drowning, you don't really care how nice your life-raft is, you want a life raft.
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Adjutant
 
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Post 14 Feb 2020, 7:37 pm

I would vote for him too in that scenario. But that is an extremely low standard in my view and I prefer someone else. I think the more important question would be whether you prefer he is the nominee--even with his warts-- because of the view that he has the best chance of beating Trump. He is sort of immune from a lot of the attacks that Trump would make against other Democratic candidates. I am just surprised that a smart guy would say such things (he also said some controversial things about the cause of the Financial Crisis).