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Adjutant
 
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Post 16 Feb 2017, 1:01 pm

I did not say that Trump said ALL Mexicans are rapists, etc. Please point out where I said that. The fact that he would describe an immigrant group as bringing crime, as saying they're rapists and then "I assume some of them are good people" is not just stupid, it's racist. And he got elected. This means a lot of people either supported his racist views regarding Mexicans or were willing to tolerate or excuse them.

I also did not say that Jews and Asians do better because of genetics. Not only did I not say that but I specifically referenced cultural factors.

As far as marriage and out-of-wedlock births, you have the chicken turning into an egg. Lack of jobs, lack of decent jobs causes a decline in marriage and increase in out-of-wedlock births--not the other way around. Get black men decent jobs and the social problems will take care of themselves. By the, way the white out-of-wedlock rate has increased from 3 percent to 29 percent in the past 50 years. I wonder if you control for income how black and white rates would compare?
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Post 16 Feb 2017, 1:19 pm

freeman3 wrote:I did not say that Trump said ALL Mexicans are rapists, etc. Please point out where I said that. The fact that he would describe an immigrant group as bringing crime, as saying they're rapists and then "I assume some of them are good people" is not just stupid, it's racist. And he got elected. This means a lot of people either supported his racist views regarding Mexicans or were willing to tolerate or excuse them.


Are you saying Trump is a racist or that he said some racist things? There is a difference.

I don't believe either to be true. You are casting them in the worst-possible light. I just think he's a lousy public speaker.

I also did not say that Jews and Asians do better because of genetics. Not only did I not say that but I specifically referenced cultural factors.


I was speaking of those excluded from "Jews and Asians."

As far as marriage and out-of-wedlock births, you have the chicken turning into an egg. Lack of jobs, lack of decent jobs causes a decline in marriage and increase in out-of-wedlock births--not the other way around. Get black men decent jobs and the social problems will take care of themselves.


I'm afraid it is you who has inverted things. Do you suppose black men had better jobs 50 years ago?

I don't. And yet the out-of-wedlock birthrate was 1/3 of what it is today. What has changed?

My answer: there is more welfare available and there is no social stigma whatsoever to having children sans marriage--or to being on welfare.

By the, way the white out-of-wedlock rate has increased from 3 percent to 29 percent in the past 50 years. I wonder if you control for income how black and white rates would compare?


I suspect there are variations at the top and bottom of the spectrum. Many rich people don't care about marriage.
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Post 17 Feb 2017, 8:55 am

per the online oxford Living Dictionary:
The belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race...

They do go on to mention especially in regards to superiority and another definition dealt entirely with superiority. But no, it need not deal entirely with one race being superior to another but simply believing one race has certain "qualities" associated to one race over another. Those who think Blacks should raise black children are indeed racist by definition as they think those people can do a better job of it. If whites are not equal to blacks in an ability to raise a black child then that absolutely is racist.

Try all you like to make it else-wise but that's a fact.
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Post 17 Feb 2017, 9:27 am

As Trump would say...wrong. Blacks saying that black children should be raised by black parents is not saying that anything about the abilities, characteristics or qualities of the white race. If they said that whites were simply unfit parents because of because of an innate inability to parent any children you would be right. But there is no innate aspect of whites we are talking about, but simply the belief that black children should be raised by black parents. Next, you are going to define the quality as whites have an inability to parent black children. That does not qualify as an ability, characteristic or quality of the white race. At most the blacks in Virginia were saying that whites would not be able to instill black culture like a black parent would. I suspect that a white would not raise a black child while instilling in black culture like a black parent would. So that seems like a true statement to me. Now, it wasn't any of their business and everything I have seen with regard to Brad here over the past 15-20 years indicates he will do a fine job raising a black child, but I would not classify the views expressed by those blacks as being racist. Misguided but not racist.

You should be a lot concerned about the real racist stuff that is going on right now which threatens to unravel the social fabric rather than this faux reverse stuff.
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Post 17 Feb 2017, 9:42 am

Which brings us back to the beginning.

How can treating everyone equally in a government sense be considered a "racist policy"
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Post 17 Feb 2017, 10:07 am

Fate
I'm afraid it is you who has inverted things. Do you suppose black men had better jobs 50 years ago?
I don't. And yet the out-of-wedlock birthrate was 1/3 of what it is today. What has changed?

The Justice system. Bad for everyone. Worst for Blacks.
One out of nine African American men will be in prison between the ages of 20 and 34.[8]
Black males ages 30 to 34 have the highest crime rate of any race/ethnicity gender and age combination. (According to America Community Survey.)
"In 2014, 6% of all black males ages 30 to 39 were in prison, compared to 2% of Hispanic and 1% of white males in the same age group."[9]
"The Lifetime chances of going to prison are 32.2% for Black males and 17.2% for Latino males, while only 5.9% for White males." (Finzen 301)
1 in 3 black males will go to prison in their lifetime. ( Sentencing Project
)
The leading cause of incarceration of an African American male is a non-violent, 68,000 of the 501,300 African Americans incarcerated was a result of drug offences

According to a 2014 Human Rights Watch report, "tough-on-crime" laws adopted since the 1980s, have filled U.S. prisons with mostly nonviolent offenders.[15] This policy failed to rehabilitate prisoners and many were worse on release than before incarceration. Rehabilitation programs for offenders can be more cost effective than prison.[16] According to the Brennan Center for Justice, falling crime rates cannot be ascribed to mass incarceration.[17]

According to a 2016 analysis of federal data by the U.S. Education Department, state and local spending on incarceration has grown three times as much as spending on public education since 1980.[18]
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Post 17 Feb 2017, 10:09 am

bbauska
Which brings us back to the beginning.

How can treating everyone equally in a government sense be considered a "racist policy"


That's is whats supposed to be happening. It just isn't.
And if there is a documented history of failing to treat everyone equally for a very long time, whats wrong with mitigating the results of that failure with some limited preferential treatment?
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Post 17 Feb 2017, 10:26 am

rickyp wrote:bbauska
Which brings us back to the beginning.

How can treating everyone equally in a government sense be considered a "racist policy"


That's is whats supposed to be happening. It just isn't.
And if there is a documented history of failing to treat everyone equally for a very long time, whats wrong with mitigating the results of that failure with some limited preferential treatment?


Because it was the Government "adjusting" the rules to get the results they wanted in the first place that got us here. It has been over 50 years! How long do you think it would take to continue giving preferential treatment to get the results you want?

Do you think a lack of a father in the home in a majority of Black households is having a negative effect on the advancement of the the Black culture compared to other societies (e.g. Asian, White, Hispanic, Jewish et. al.)?
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Post 17 Feb 2017, 10:33 am

freeman3 wrote:Why do you think Jewish and Asian households do so well? A cultural emphasis on education and achieving success. People don't control being born Jewish or Asian.


A story: My son attends one of these specialized public high schools where the only criteria for acceptance is how well you score on a test and NYC residency. The student population is 74% Asian.

He had a genetics class this past semester where all the kids tested their own genome during a field trip to a lab. They had the kids separate into groups based upon a single marker their genome. All the East Asian kids went to one side of the room. All the kids who had two Ashkenazi Jewish parents went to the other side, and there were a few kids who had just one Ashkenazi Jewish parent and they split between the two groups. But that was it; no other "groups" in the class.

That is all. Carry on.
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Post 17 Feb 2017, 11:13 am

Freeman speaks about instilling
"black culture"
That alone smacks just a bit of racism now doesn't it?

...What if I were to talk about instilling "White Culture" into these adopted black kids?
Somehow that would be a huge problem yet it's okay to "instill black culture"
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Post 17 Feb 2017, 11:18 am

rickyp wrote:Fate
I'm afraid it is you who has inverted things. Do you suppose black men had better jobs 50 years ago?
I don't. And yet the out-of-wedlock birthrate was 1/3 of what it is today. What has changed?

The Justice system. Bad for everyone. Worst for Blacks.
One out of nine African American men will be in prison between the ages of 20 and 34.[8]
Black males ages 30 to 34 have the highest crime rate of any race/ethnicity gender and age combination. (According to America Community Survey.)
"In 2014, 6% of all black males ages 30 to 39 were in prison, compared to 2% of Hispanic and 1% of white males in the same age group."[9]
"The Lifetime chances of going to prison are 32.2% for Black males and 17.2% for Latino males, while only 5.9% for White males." (Finzen 301)
1 in 3 black males will go to prison in their lifetime. ( Sentencing Project
)
The leading cause of incarceration of an African American male is a non-violent, 68,000 of the 501,300 African Americans incarcerated was a result of drug offences

According to a 2014 Human Rights Watch report, "tough-on-crime" laws adopted since the 1980s, have filled U.S. prisons with mostly nonviolent offenders.[15] This policy failed to rehabilitate prisoners and many were worse on release than before incarceration. Rehabilitation programs for offenders can be more cost effective than prison.[16] According to the Brennan Center for Justice, falling crime rates cannot be ascribed to mass incarceration.[17]

According to a 2016 analysis of federal data by the U.S. Education Department, state and local spending on incarceration has grown three times as much as spending on public education since 1980.[18]

This is the lamest post I've seen in quite a while. Let me illustrate.

Do you, rickyp, make any connection between out-of-wedlock birth increase in the black community and increased incarceration?

No.

Do you, rickyp, make any connection between better jobs for Blacks 50 years ago than today and the increased incarceration rate?

No.

You just assume your point, then go on to "prove" it.

What rubbish!
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Post 17 Feb 2017, 11:51 am

Maybe we should teach these black men "White Culture"?
and why not?
Freeman points to Black Culture so White Culture must be accepted
Ricky points out how whites have the smallest incarceration rate while blacks have the highest so based on Ricky's "facts" it would follow that we should teach "White Culture" to black males. In fact, it should be forcibly done by the government because they know best and are required to make us all equal regardless of how it get's done???
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Post 17 Feb 2017, 12:30 pm

I just think it is questionable at the very least for whites to use the race card as a sword against minorities when it's minorities who sustained discrimination for so long. At least the conduct complained about should be clearly racist where whites are being mistreated by minorities who have power over them, similar to how minorities have been mistreated by whites having power over them. Affirmative action simply does not compare to Jim Crow. Sorry, there are many, many orders of magnitudes difference between the two.

As for Brad's contention that the government should treat races equally, again that's fine if we were starting out with a new society. But we're not. Whites were favored by the leading institutions in this country for a very long time. Blacks in particular were subject to slavery and institutionalized discrimination. The question is, do we think that the effects of slavery and Jim Crow and other forms of discrimination have no effects into the present day? If we believe that, then ok the government should not do anything to try and correct what happened before. But if we believe that the wrongful treatment of certain minority groups has had effects to the present day, then I think we are morally obligated as a society to keep trying to do what we can to counter those lingering bad effects of wrongful treatment of minorities. You already know what my position is, but I think the above question clarifies the issue.
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Post 17 Feb 2017, 12:45 pm

There is a proposal in a memo for Homeland Security that would calls for enlisting up to 100,000 National Guardsman to assist in deportation.

https://www.google.com/amp/www.cnbc.com ... ent=safari

That seems sort of Stalinesque to me...
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Post 17 Feb 2017, 1:30 pm

freeman3 wrote:There is a proposal in a memo for Homeland Security that would calls for enlisting up to 100,000 National Guardsman to assist in deportation.

https://www.google.com/amp/www.cnbc.com ... ent=safari

That seems sort of Stalinesque to me...


The White House denies this, which makes it "very fake news."

The problem liberals have right now is there inclined to believe EVERY rumor right now if it reflects poorly on Trump.

I'm starting to get so tired of it that I'm almost feeling sympathetic toward Trump. I'm not there yet, but another few months of lefty paranoia might get me there.