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Post 28 Jul 2011, 8:06 pm

not random but to claim it's all about skill?
The game itself is all about skill, shootouts have a great deal of luck if the goalie GUESSES what side to block, if the wrong side is guessed, then my 5 year old neighbor could score. A tremendous game of strategy ended with a game of luck, certainly not 100% luck as a coin flip would be but again, a different game and that sucks.
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Post 29 Jul 2011, 1:34 am

I didn't say it was all skill. The keeper may guess right. A great shot, however, will beat any keeper. The keeper's guess is not luck either. It will be based on trying to read the body of the striker and perhaps on observation of their history. And the striker does have to be on target for the keeper to make any difference.

Anyway, it' s a silly argument that you and Randy are making even more ridiculous.
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Post 29 Jul 2011, 6:26 am

Not terribly silly but yes we ARE making it worse I agree!
I say not terribly silly because the concept is a bit strange, you play one game for so long only to end in such a drastically different way. That seems a bit odd to end a game in such a way. I fully understand the reasons of course and I appreciate the excitement, but as a player, to lose in that way kinda sucks.
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Post 29 Jul 2011, 9:44 am

Try cricket. You can play the full game for 5 days and end up with a draw (or a tie, which is not the same thing). Or in the 50 over game with rain or an early close have a full day's play decided on the vagaries of Duckworth-Lewis.

It is the game, and you go into it knowing the rules. Rules can always change, but hopefully not at the insistence of the ignorant.
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Post 29 Jul 2011, 10:23 am

ahh, but I am not being ignorant. I know why the system is as it is. I do understand, you could quite easily claim the "ignorant" were those who blindly accept the way it is and refuse to come up with any other answer. Ignorance is not in the one who wants a better system and is willing to think boldly, ignorance is where people simply accept defeat and accept a better way is impossible.

I guess Diplomacy variants are created by ignorant people? They see a game that is pretty damned good and try to tinker with ways to make it better. Some fail, some work well, but is it "ignorant" to try and make something better or is it ignorant to simply accept it can't get better?
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Post 29 Jul 2011, 1:01 pm

But most Diplomacy variants that work are created by people who play Diplomacy, and thus they are not ignorant of it.
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Post 29 Jul 2011, 1:55 pm

RUFFHAUS 8 wrote:If the argument is so silly and ridiculous, then why are you piping in? Why not shut up and move along? No one's begging for your comments one way or another.
This will be my last post on the matter, not because you asked me to shut up (so polite, Randy, as ever) , but because I maintain that it has become toxic.

There's nothing wrong with a silly debate. Making it a series of swipes between you and Tom is what made it ridiculous.

I have the same rights as you do to express my opinion. I hope I am able to do it without quite so much verbosity or repetition. Or bullying.

But you have to wade in on everything with a snide comment of course.
Unlike you of course, the very model of respect and good manners. You still haven't taken back the slander you cast on me that I called you a racist. I have never done so, but you introduced it into a completely unrelated discussion (the other soccer thread). Your self-righteousness over my 'snideness' reeks of hypocrisy.

Clearly you comments on the game are valid, and of course they are. You're an avid fan and follower of the game, whereas Tom is not. It's not surprise that he doesn't understand. What's surprising is the passionate objection and criticism of something that he know next to nothing about.
Actually, what gets me is that about as much of the thread has been you and Tom arguing over a point that it's clear you aren't going to ever agree on than has been discussing all other aspects of the Women's World Cup.

I shall leave you to it now, Randy.
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Post 29 Jul 2011, 3:42 pm

I have been attempting to be polite about the possible changes and in fact I always stated the current situation is indeed exciting. I have no big issue keeping it the way it is. Not terrible by any means but I do see room for improvement and discussing ideas ...even seemingly crazy ones has it's place. Like discussing the best player ever, there is no right or wrong answer, it's simply fun to discuss and "argue" your sides. When it is taken to the stupid personal level is when it gets foolish and as danivon has pointed out Randy took it there long ago.

I say anyone discuss the possible reasons to change and how to change, simply saying "No your wrong, you suck" isn't the way to do it. This is about ideas and discussion of them, feel free to disagree. Tell us why you disagree, your point about exhaustion is a powerful point, the excitement of a shootout, again, powerful stuff, To simply dismiss any that disagree with you is being foolish, Point out the folly in those other suggestions ask to come up with something better, all cool! Simply waving your hand in a know it all fashion is not how you would discuss other issues. We all have OPINIONS, opinions are not "wrong" they are personal feelings, how you can say my feelings are simple "wrong" is pointless, funny how so many American sportswriters agree with me but Randy fails to acknowledge them. They have different OPINIONS and discussing them is supposed to be fun, sometimes a "bit" heated, that's cool to get amped up over something you are passionate about, take it from that angle and be civil!

FYI, the comment where I do not know the game, not so fast pal. I am no rabid fan but I have played, I have coached, I have followed my kids all through high school and I do watch an occasional game. I am not ignorant of the game and simply waving me off as an idiot and yourself as some sort of know it all....kinda makes you look like a tool doesn't it?

Nowhere was I proved wrong as Randy insists, It is an opinion, ones opinion can not be wrong. I think the system could be done better, But Randy says no, it can't I am wrong? Huh????

Oh, one more question for mister know it all
Randy, Please tell me how many professional soccer matches you have played that went into overtime? You seem to be claiming you have been there, like you know the situation first hand. Maybe you have played such a game with your buddies in some recreational over 40 league? But these guys are professional athletes, comparting what YOU can do with whjat THEY can do....wow, you sure are full of yourself huh?

Now, take it down a notch, stop the personal insults, discuss things rationally. Disagree all you like, that's cool Danivon disagrees, no problem, is he hurling insults?
Am I?
...yep, right back at the one who started hurling them at me.
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Post 29 Jul 2011, 6:01 pm

This thread has me wanting to crack open a Schlitz and get some foosball action amped up. Give me a few minutes to chase the cats off my table and then we can get busy!