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Post 16 Jun 2011, 7:26 pm

Randy,

I agree with everything you said. I would go further to say that I think Philadelphia is on the cusp off becoming a major market. There was a game last month where the Phillies had a game, both the Flyers and Sixers had playoff games and the weather sucked. Even with all this, PPL Park was still sold out. I have heard there is talk about expanding the current capacity from 18,500 to about 30,000.

Having said all that if you go to the Union Facebook page it is loaded with comments about the level of players we have and not getting a DP yet.
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Post 17 Jun 2011, 10:18 am

Randy,

On Dempsey, I think his best fit is as an attacking midfielder. He has been great at distributing the ball. His penchant for flair works more often in his passing than in his shooting. That's my point. As a CAM, he'll have much more flexibility. Up top, I really think our best bet is Davies. He and Altidore played well together, and we've had nothing close to that since. I'm ok with Bob going slowly on him, but I really think he's the only real option to play with Jozy.

Randy and Russ,
With regard to MLS, I don't see the conspiracies. MLS has more teams in "minor" cities than any other sport. This is by design--and with the same reason they want smaller "soccer specific" fields instead of half-filled football stadia. I don't think Nowak wants a DP just yet. He's been able to put together a really good team without one, so why bother? I would have liked Fielhaber, but it seems they've sorted out the midfield without one.
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Post 17 Jun 2011, 10:26 am

I'd like to see us go with a diamond. Obviously we can't do this for the Gold Cup, but my primary starters would be:

--- ---- ----- ----- -----Howard---- ---- ----- --- ---- ---
Chandler-----Gooch---Gonzalez----Bocanegra
---- ---- --- --- --- ----Bradley---- --- ---- ---- --- --- ----
Donovan ---- ---- ---- ----- ----- ----- ----- --Fielhaber/ Klijstan (or any number of other midfielders)
--- ---- ---- ----- --- -- Dempsey--- ---- ---- ---- ---- --
---- ---- --Davies ---- ---- ---- --- Altidore ---- ---- ---
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Post 17 Jun 2011, 1:15 pm

Archduke Toronto is the 4th largest city in North America.... It had, if memory recalls correctly the 2nd best attendance in the league for two or three years.
So not really a minor market. As a television market the first two years FC games had a potential market of 35 million. national. they now share that with the whitecaps and next year with Montreal. And Toronto still holds the single year atendance record for major league baseball. 4.2 million.

AS for FC, as far as I can tell through the PR dross and commnetators, the first manager was an ass. He made promises he couldn't keep or had no intention of keeping when he made them (See John Carver)
There was also some early talk about trying to really canadianize the roster. But the pitfalls of that, lose half your roster for every Canadian international, came quickly apparent.
TFC is owned by Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment. They also own the leafs and raptors and the Marlies (American Hockey). They don't care about winning if it will cost them profits....(did I mention the leafs and Raptors?)
And they are an incredibly profitable company. They will wait and let Aaron Winter develop the team. Essentially they would admit, internally - never externally - to making a mistake with their first manager. And losing 3 years over that. There is a very good academy. If they actually got the best Canadian kids, and didn't lose them to European academies, that would be great.

As for the system versus the players. usually managers like a system and recruit players who have the attributes to play within that system. In Europe you can turn a roster around pretty quickly. Apparently not so fast in MSL. You'd like a manager to be flexible enough to play different systems in order to adapt to other teams, new tactics and etc. I don't see why the US coach can't.
Hell I had a U17 provincial team play two different systems successfuly and those were girls Course that might also explain something. Girls tend to be pretty coachable versus men. Young men often taking coaching points as "suggestions". Now at a professional level or an intternational level you'd think it wouldn't be a problem. But people do tend to play a certain way and the muscle memory and decision making tend to take over. If all they've ever played is one way, at 24 its hard to learn another way....
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Post 17 Jun 2011, 1:21 pm

By the way, every system has its pluses and minues. The best teams are able to switch their tactics depending on how they are being played..... Hoiwever, most coaches have such a strong belief in their system, if its been at all successful for them, that they often simply believe in persistence.....
International teams usually don't play or practice together enough to really develop patterns and rythymns. I can look at a team, like the U21 Spanish and very quickly - without looking at the score - know its the Spanish team. They play the same system through their whole organization U17, U21 Nationals... By the time they graduate to the national team the players are indoctrinated...
Does that happen in the US? I don't think I've seen US youth teams.
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Post 17 Jun 2011, 1:23 pm

It happens in England. Unfortunately, the system we play isn't that good and the tactics really don't work for younger players. I'm shocked we held Spain to a draw last week.
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Post 17 Jun 2011, 1:32 pm

rickyp wrote:Archduke Toronto is the 4th largest city in North America.... It had, if memory recalls correctly the 2nd best attendance in the league for two or three years.
So not really a minor market. As a television market the first two years FC games had a potential market of 35 million. national. they now share that with the whitecaps and next year with Montreal. And Toronto still holds the single year atendance record for major league baseball. 4.2 million.


Well unless their records changed for this year according to Wikipedia Toronto is 3rd on the MLB list with 4.05M (Behing the Rockies and the Yankees) and is the 5th largest city in NA behind Mexico City, New York, Los Angles and Chicago - cities 2-5 all have MLS franchises so that kind of proves my point.
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Post 17 Jun 2011, 7:03 pm

RUFFHAUS 8 wrote:As for MLS, there's no debating that there's a conspiracy of to stack the NY team. The league openly flaunts it.


Interestingly, I read somewhere that there is the possibility of a 2nd MLS team for New York as a possible 2013 expansion team. The team will be called the Cosmos.
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Post 18 Jun 2011, 8:26 am

5th largest city in NA behind Mexico City

Oh, right. Mexico. still part of North America....
Still, hardly a "minor market".
Now Columbus, thats a minor market.
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Post 18 Jun 2011, 10:45 pm

RUFFHAUS 8 wrote:Jeff, overall that's a good line up,and it's essentially saying that same thing regarding Dempsey even though he's not a striker per se here. It gets him off the wing and into a position where he can freelance. Bradley is good enough to pick up his slack ass defending "talents". Clearly addition of Davies and Fielhaber makes this team much better. I'd use Kjestian as a sub/depth for the attacking midfielders and forwards, and Maurice Edu for Bradley and/or any of the defenders.


I wholeheartedly agree that he should be off the wing, but I don't want him to be one of our 2 target men. I think he's perfect for a CAM. When the wingers bring it up, then he can attack with the forwards.

RUFFHAUS 8 wrote:On defense, I'm a Onyewu fan, so I like you calling for Gooch again. Gonzales is better than Ream by leaps and bounds. Goodson is okay. Honestly I really liked DeMerit here, even though he's rather slow, and short, but I love his tenacity. In a perfect world I'd rather see Bocanegra in the middle with Onyewu, but I'm not upset with him outside if we cannot find a suitable left back. I'm happy to see Cherundolo replaced, but who is Chandler though?


Timothy Chandler. The German with dual citizenship. He played in the games we had a few months back. He was really good, and plays for Nurnburg. When he declined to play in the Gold Cup a rumor was started that he's considering Germany, but I have seen no other basis than some boob on ESPN saying so. At RB, Germany's not short on talent. It doesn't make any sense to me.

RUFFHAUS 8 wrote:As for MLS, there's no debating that there's a conspiracy of to stack the NY team. The league openly flaunts it. Whatever, those chumps couldn't beat a high school team in a three game series. Red Bull-sh*+ is what it is. Now for what it's worth I wouldn't really want Thierry Henry right now. Rafael Marquez is another story. And I'm okay with the fash going to the flash, as long as the others get something more than trash.


Ok, there, longfellow. With regard to NY & LA, you have to understand that it's where non-Americans always want to go. Robert Pires was in talks with the Union before he said that Philadelphia wasn't beautiful enough for him. Not that NYC is beautiful, but it's a place people want to be--regardless of what it looks like. Does the league tinker with the teams? Yes. But I view it more of a cartel than a conspiracy. Well, a cartel IS a conspiracy, but it's not a conspiracy between a few teams and the league, it's the entire league. At least that's how I see it.

On the Gold Cup, I missed the first game, but I'm glad that Costa Rica is gone. I despise them as much as I despise the Colorado Rapids.

With Mexico allowed to replace their players, I tihnk they are the favorites again. I hope the US loses to Jamaica. Ok, I can't root against them, but if they are going to put in mediocre effort after mediocre effort, be gone with them.
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Post 23 Jun 2011, 1:58 pm

r
After 60 minutes of futility, Cheatin Bob finally went deep into his bench and pulled out Freddy Adu. With the combination of Donovan, Dempsey, Bedoya, and Adu running at them Panama was opened up and exploited.


I only saw the second half, but i thought when he brought Adu on, everything changed. Perhaps at the time it was committing 4 to full out attack....but R thats what the 4-2-3-1 (which is really what the US is playing) is suppossed to do... The problem with the system is getting through the middle third as often support is limited becasue of the commitment to defence. If midfielders don't move out in support of a possession turnover it can get lonely for the guy with the ball... And then the only option is the long ball to the isolated forward....Which usually is a turnover sine its often 1v3.
Adu and Donovan seemed to read and understand what was required. . Adu's pass to Donovan was brilliant...
Its not so much the system you play, its how the players execute the system. Sometimes the players don't have the skills that the system emphasizes. In the system here midfielders have to be able to keep close control and pass decent distance accurately . Good for Freddy I say.
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Post 24 Jun 2011, 10:20 am

RUFFHAUS 8 wrote:I guess I'm just a cranky old purist. Mexico's is playing very well in a 442 formation, and in my view that's what we should be doing as well.


Just as an aside this made me kind of smile. Back when I played (25 years or more ago) my coachs almost always played a 2-3-5 line. Therefore, the cranky old fart in me thinks all this focus on defense in a 4-*-* line is pansy sissy like. :laugh:
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Post 24 Jun 2011, 11:03 am

2-3-5? You mean like the WM formations of the 1950s? Blimey, that went out when Puskas was tearing through defences! Did your coaches not see overseas games in the 1960s and 70s? Don't tell me they were all former FA suits who'd been slung out pre-Ramsay? No wonder US football didn't recover it's former glory until the 90s. :smile:

4 at the back doesn't mean that the two players at the wing can't be pressing forward. I love it when they do (as long as they don't fluff it up and let the opposing midfield in behind them.

With only 2 at the back, what ends up happening is that the midfield are always pulling back to cover, which seems more negative to me. 2-3-5 ends up really being a 5-3-2, or a lot of goals are shipped.
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Post 24 Jun 2011, 1:10 pm

danivon wrote:2-3-5? You mean like the WM formations of the 1950s? Blimey, that went out when Puskas was tearing through defences! Did your coaches not see overseas games in the 1960s and 70s? Don't tell me they were all former FA suits who'd been slung out pre-Ramsay? No wonder US football didn't recover it's former glory until the 90s. :smile:


Honestly, I wouldn't have the slightest idea since they were mostly parents coaching.

danivon wrote:4With only 2 at the back, what ends up happening is that the midfield are always pulling back to cover, which seems more negative to me. 2-3-5 ends up really being a 5-3-2, or a lot of goals are shipped.


From what I remember it ended up being more of a 5-5 line. The Defenders would play more forward and the Midfielders would play a little back.
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Post 25 Jun 2011, 8:05 am

I'm glad you brought this up, Russ. The ironic part is that MLS was founded on principles specifically created to avoid any association with the NY Cosmos of the old NASL where all the fancy foreign names wanted to go play as Jeff has corrected alluded to. TheNY club was also intentionally not called the Cosmos for this reason, even though Metrostars were always given the first crack at everything. When Metrostars was provent o be a ridiculous name, Red Bull came in, and well, it's less lame than Metrostars.


As I understanbd it the reason the Cosmos name wasn't used was more down to copyright issues than anything else, but you'd know more about it than I do of course.

I hope they do come back to the bigtime though, if for no other reason than they have Cantona as their director of football.