What grates with Rodgers is the way he's been portrayed as some kind of visionary despite never really having done anything to prove it. I guess that isn't his fault as such, but he doesn't half spin a mean line of bullshit to play on it. I don't really buy the hype. Yes, he did well with Swansea, but as I said before he was building on solid foundations, and in any case Laudrup has done better. Liverpool are a natural top 6 team who he got into 6th place last year. Big deal. He'll do well to get them above 6th again and then when they lose Suarez that'll be about the upper limit.

Also, I can't quite shake the feeling that he should really be playing the villian in a Guy Ritchie film.

There are a lot of different things that make up the managers role.
I think the highest value in a manager is in identifying and securing talent. The best are able to accomplish this on a shoe string, finding gems in unlikely places. (Being a Wigan fan this is particularly important, and the reason Martinez was really good. He found talent at a low price that could compete in the EPL. Injuries to almost every defender on the roster killed Wigan's survival chances last year, not lack of talent. )
With Liverpools budget the identifying and securing talent role is much less difficult. An abundance of money makes everything easier. I don't rate Rodgers very highly here... He should b able to find his team without much leg work. Ability to pay attracts...

The next highest value is man management, Keeping a large squad competing at a high level consistently. I don't know how Rodgers manages this versus others ....except he has kept Suarez around and just putting Suarez on the field makes a team a potential winner. (As long as Suarez manages to stay on the field). Plus he's won without Suarez this year. So he's got to get some credit here.
The next is tactics and game management. Based on last year Rodgers might be lacking. But so far, his team has coped with the opposition this year... So you have to give him a pass...for now.
Is he a genius? Probably just average....
A genius manager would take the situation he's been given and always make it better. Right now in the EPL thats Laudrup, Martinez and AVP no? I suppose Wenger deserves recognition as well.... He does manage with the lowest budget of the big 4... MAybe I'm missing one?

The rest are neutral or under performing... Especially Moyes.

But its also only 8 games in and Fergie was in this position after 8 games in the past.... And won the league...

Ruff, Rooney has a history with Moyes that exacerbated the "Rooney problem". he brought baggage with him. He got through it, but it was probably worse than it would have been if another manager had taken over at Man U.
You may be right that Man U needs an over haul and that Fergie got out before it was necessary ..... But Moyes did very little to the Man U roster... and he's not using some very good players all that much.
In the end, your team is worth where you are in the standings... And a manager can really only be judged on where he turns up at the end of the year versus general expectations.(7th?)
I don't think anyone but die hard Liverpool supporters think of them as top 4. So Rodgers did OK last year. So far, he's edging ahead of expectations .... but because he's just average i think they'll net out about 7th...
On the other had, Manu is expected to be top three every year... regardless of roster problems...because the manager is given the resources to get the roster he wants. Moyes got Fellaini who's added little to Man U And he's ignored Kagawa, who I always thought was both creative and energetic...
Moyes could end up top 3 yet, I grant you .... I just think his approach to the game is more pedestrian than what Man u enjoyed under Fergie. Imagine what Martinez would be doing with the Man U roster?


ruffhaus

I would say that Rodgers is partially culpable for Suarez's behavior,

Well then give Rodgers credit for Suarez not swallowing what he bit....restraint!

Seriously, I agree that Rodgers was a bit of a dink regarding Suarez''s behaviour issues... But could he really have impacted things that much? Some times children like Suarez and Ballotelli reach professional sports before they are emotionally mature enough to deal with the pressures... And they simply have to experience the consequences of poor behaviour before they learn and mature...
You can't really blame Rodgers for the biting. Only how he reacted to the biting...

You're both probably ascribing too much responsibility to the manager for transfer policy. It doesn't really work that way any more. Ferguson and Wenger were/are the last of the old fashioned managers with complete control over recruitment. I'm not sure how much Brendan Rodgers was really responsible for the Suarez situation. He probably wanted to keep the player, Liverpool's best by far and with no obvious replacement on the horizon, but the decision on whether to sell has never been his to make.

In retrospect perhaps they should have taken Arsenal's money, but I don't think it's all that clear cut. We've seen this season how difficult Liverpool have found it to attract elite level talent. They spent all summer chasing the likes of Mkhtaryan and Diego Costa, neither of whom you'd really put in the very top bracket, and ended up missing out. It's hard to see how they could have bought a decent replacement for Suarez with the money thay'd have made. Better to keep him for another 6 months and line up a replacement before doing the deal is presumably the calculation.

ruff

I'll take Moyes and Fellaini over Rodgers and Suarez any day.

Aren't there any other choices?

You clearly undervalue marriage, Randy.

Let's not spoil the football thread guys. Save that crap for the politics forum where it belongs.

Sassenach wrote:Let's not spoil the football thread guys. Save that crap for the politics forum where it belongs.

Indeed.

I had no idea football was so complex. Three different competitions in the same season? Good night!

Doctor Fate wrote:

Sassenach wrote:Let's not spoil the football thread guys. Save that crap for the politics forum where it belongs.

Indeed.

I had no idea football was so complex. Three different competitions in the same season? Good night!

More than 3. Over a season an English Premier League team can be in five competitions: The Premiership, the FA Cup, the League Cup, the Champions League and the Europa League (if knocked out of the CL in particular ways). Then there are single-match competitions like the Charity Shield, and UEFA Super Cup.

There used to be two other European competitions, the Cup Winners' Cup and the Inter Toto (which bizarrely had three winners a year, but was really formed for Tote gambling).

At lower levels we also have the Football League trophy (for teams in levels 3 and 4), the FA Trophy (for teams at levels 5-8), the FA Vase (levels 9+).

Then there are the Youth competitions at U18 and U21 (the rules of which do allow older players to take part as reserve sides have been pretty much abolished).

I mention the last merely to allow me to observe that Fulham Academy has won the top U18 league for the past three seasons.

danivon wrote:

Doctor Fate wrote:

Sassenach wrote:Let's not spoil the football thread guys. Save that crap for the politics forum where it belongs.

Indeed.

I had no idea football was so complex. Three different competitions in the same season? Good night!

More than 3. Over a season an English Premier League team can be in five competitions: The Premiership, the FA Cup, the League Cup, the Champions League and the Europa League (if knocked out of the CL in particular ways). Then there are single-match competitions like the Charity Shield, and UEFA Super Cup. .

So much to learn! I do know that I'm enjoying it--and that Arsenal is doing well in the EPL, even though they just lost in some other competition (I think it was named after a credit card). And, I know "we" are up against Liverpool tomorrow, which won't be easy.

Doctor Fate wrote:So much to learn! I do know that I'm enjoying it--and that Arsenal is doing well in the EPL, even though they just lost in some other competition (I think it was named after a credit card). And, I know "we" are up against Liverpool tomorrow, which won't be easy.

It was the League Cup (open to the 92 teams of the Football League only, as opposed to the FA Cup which is open to non-league teams as well). Capital One are the sponsors of the League Cup - it's been the Littlewoods Cup, the Milk Cup, the Carling Cup...

The disappointment for Arsenal being knocked out is that it was Chelsea's second string that was put out (apparently in protest at the game being scheduled two days after the Man City game).

Which puts a bit more pressure on for the Liverpool game.

danivon wrote:Which puts a bit more pressure on for the Liverpool game.

Iirc, Liverpool was a preseason favorite. I do know they are in third place. I know their goalie made a spectacular save early in the season (first or second game). I know we've not played as well over the past few weeks as we did after the opening debacle.

So, to me, there's already a LOT of pressure.

ruff

Is this a serious question,

Obviously it wasn't. Moron.

Doctor Fate wrote:Iirc, Liverpool was a preseason favorite. I do know they are in third place. I know their goalie made a spectacular save early in the season (first or second game). I know we've not played as well over the past few weeks as we did after the opening debacle.

So, to me, there's already a LOT of pressure.

Well, LFC are often rated preseason but since the late 80s have flattered to deceive. This year they have started well and have good potential. And of course a win at the weekend could put them top.

Arsenal have not played well but are still unbeaten for several league games so in a sense this is a clash of the form clubs. But a draw would be the worst outcome, with Chelsea in prime postion to go top.