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Post 06 Apr 2020, 4:29 am

GSL showdown 14 notes:
The strength cards (Card(7) and any bonus bonus strength cards) note on the card how much they increase the wielding factor.
To pick up the table or a chair sufficient strength must be played to raise the wielding factor above 0. (The table begins at -6 and the chairs at -3). It is picked up using DRAW & COCK.
In order to hold or carry (using any foot action) or throw either the table or a chair sufficient strength must be played EACH turn. If, for some reason it is not, the item falls to the floor in the character's hex, attacking any down character in that hex.
Wielding factor is explained in rules 16, 17 & 18. If there are any questions let me know.
Wielding factor determines how far the item can be thrown.
Per optional rule 7.2, both objects are thrown at a hex, not a character, and will attack all characters in the hex.
The table is Aim 6/Range 0, BE hits are BODY hits. (This is for hit determination only. The table may be thrown up to it's wielding factor in actual range.)
The chair is Aim 3/Range Actual Range.

If someone picks up the table, the money bags will fall to the floor in hex DD-F17
Since this is another "Kill or be killed" showdown, BE hits will be VITAL unless otherwise specified in the player's turn.

In case anyone is interested, here's how I assign characters. I have noted in my spreadsheet those playing, in the order they notified me. Once ready, I will draw a result card for each player in that order. Once all cards are drawn, the lowest card number is C1, the next lowest C2, etc.
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Post 06 Apr 2020, 8:25 pm

Recalling the last time I played Showdown 14 there was discussion about what delays applied when moving on/off chairs.

Optional rule 7.2 says tables are moveable obstacles and 7.22 that chairs are also moveable obstacles.

Q1. Does this mean that rule section 36 Obstacles applies to the chairs and table in this showdown?

If the answer is yes consider rule 36.4 which says "A player draws two delay cards each time his body moves or staggers onto or off an obstacle"

Q2. Will characters who set up on a chair have to draw two delay cards to get up off the chair?

Q3. If a character moves into OR out of a hex containing a chair will he be subject to two delay card draws?

A consideration here is the situation prior to moving into the hex containing the chair. If the chair has just been vacated in a hurry it is likely on the move and a delay to the incoming player more plausible. If the chair is stationary you could argue the player knows where the chair is and is able to avoid it without the possibility of delay.

With regard to picking up money bags I understand we use DRAW & COCK which requires the item to be in the same hex as the player per 11.11

Q4. Is there room in a standard hex such as F17 for a player to stand adjacent to the table?

I ask because if the table occupied the complete hex the player would need to climb onto the table to be in the same hex as the money bag and hence may be subject to delay draws getting on and off. If there is room round the table within the hex I assume the player needs to move into the hex containing the table to pick up money bags. We could say the table occupies the entire hex and it is okay for the player to use DRAW & COCK from an adjacent hex to get money bags (or pick up the table)
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Post 06 Apr 2020, 8:33 pm

Shame the site doesn't support user supplied avatars, this would be my choice!

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Post 07 Apr 2020, 6:53 pm

With regard to Jim's advice regarding this question:

"Q2. Will characters who set up on a chair have to draw two delay cards to get up off the chair?

The 2 delay cards are only drawn when the character leaves the chair hex. They would not be drawn when he stands (using leap or get up) or goes to the floor (using drop or get down) And, if down, the penalties are cumulative. Also note that a character will have to do one or the other before he can move. If he "remains seated" he cannot move or turn, although he can draw and fire his weapon."

I'm not sure about having to use LEAP or GET UP on a sitting player? Rule 8.2 says a player is considered UP when "standing, walking, sitting, etc." The LEAP and GET UP actions specify toggling UP/DOWN status when used so playing GET UP on a seated player to stand would flip the body counter from UP to DOWN? It seems as if the rules are reserving DOWN for prone positions?

Just to clarify the delay card draw rule regarding chairs and the table. So consider a player in G18 using ADVANCE and RUN to move to E17 with chairs in G18 and E17 and the table in F17.

Q5. Would the player be subject to 4 lots of 2 delay card draws, a total of 8 card draws? Two to exit G18, two to enter F17, two to exit F17, and two to enter E17?

Might we have a separate topic within "The Poker Game" for rules discussion so that the current topic is reserved for GM use posting turn resolutions? I think having the rules stuff all together online might be more convenient than spread across multiple emails and something for later visitors to the site to peruse?
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Post 08 Apr 2020, 5:31 am

Again, my memory has failed me. David is correct about the "up/down" in the rule for chairs. We had always used the rule about having to get up, but I had forgotten that this was a "local rule". The actual GSL rules do state that a sitting character is considered upright. So "Leap" or "Get Up" is not required to stand up from a chair.

For the delay draw example, yes he would be subject to drawing 4 lots of two cards. Actually there would be a 5th draw of two delay cards to leave E17 as it has a chair in it.
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Post 08 Apr 2020, 7:28 am

Just to clarify, since the chair and table and brawling are new to me.

Q1. To get "up" or out from a chair space you would have to use advance, for example, and then draw 2 delay cards?

Q2. to pick up chair or the table you would have to use draw & cock + a strength card? This seems to be one of the few times you use two cards in the same turn phase, correct?

Q3. re brawling, instead of aim markers, you use the wielding factor of the weapon supplemented by any strength use?

Q4. finally re brawling attacks, since you still have to be facing the target, can you throw a table or chair at a hex you are not facing?
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Post 08 Apr 2020, 8:21 am

A1. Yes. You would draw 2 delay for leaving an obstacle hex. Also, if you are moving into another obstacle hex, you would draw 2 more that that hex.

A2. Yes, sort of. Rule 20.1 covers this. The strength card is played immediately before the action card. They are both revealed at the same time. The time points are added together to determine when the action is executed. If the action is cancelled, the strength is cancelled as well.

A3. If you are throwing a weapon (e.g. your knife or a presumably empty gun) then aim is used normally. Also the throw is resolved the same as a shot (aim/range). A strength card played immediately before the Throw card can either increase the wielding factor (the distance it can be thrown) or the damage it does if it hits. If this is not specified, it will increase range if needed to execute the throw. If the target is within normal w.f. range then it will increase damage. The specifics can be found in rule 20.
For obstacles (the table and chairs), the w.f. must be above 0 to pick up and/or carry the obstacle. It also determines how far the object can be thrown. For example, a chair begins with a w.f. of -3. If you play a strength card that raises that by 4, the wf is now +1. That means you can throw the chair up to one hex away. This is also done with the Throw card. There is no aim involved in this throw as there is with a weapon throw (rule 17). An obstacle is thrown at a hex, not a character. The obstacle attacks all characters in the hex. The table is resolved as an Aim 6/Range 0 attack, the chair is resolved as an Aim 3/Range actual range attack. If either is dropped for any reason (e.g. sufficient strength not played in a turn) then it attacks all down characters in that hex. Also note that a BE result with the table is a BODY hit. As we have my special rule this showdown that all (other) BE results are VITAL, this would hold true for the chair as well. However, a player can always specify a preferred BE result with his turn (except for the table).

A4. The target hex must still be in your Aim Zone.
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Post 09 Apr 2020, 4:57 am

davidk64 wrote:Shame the site doesn't support user supplied avatars, this would be my choice!

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Post 10 Apr 2020, 7:23 pm

I was surprised when the Foreman set up on D18, on the stage! Only because I had assumed the last character would be on one of the floor hexes. But sure enough the showdown description says "any empty hex adjacent to any player" So they could even set up in F19 out of the room? I wonder whether G19* would be allowed? Maybe not as the stairs are considered a different elevation from floor?

So I had a look in the rules to see how they handle movement on the stage. I found 36.6 which says the stage hexes are obstacles. It doesn't include D16 as part of the stage but surely that is a mistake? From reading 36.4 and 36.6 my take on movement concerning the stage is:

1. Going between D15 and C15* or C15* and C16 has no delay draw penalty (stair use)
2. Going between C20 and C19* or C19* and C19 has no delay draw penalty (stair use)
3. Moving from one stage hex to an adjacent stage hex has no delay draw penalty (36.4 2nd sentence)
4. Going from floor hex (not stairs and empty of chair and table) to stage hex or vice versa incurs two delay card draw penalty (36.4 1st sentence)
5. Going from floor hex (not stairs but containing chair or table) to stage hex or vice versa incurs two lots of two delay card draw penalties (36.4 1st sentence)

I assume we treat going from one hex containing a chair/table to an adjacent hex containing a chair/table as subject to two lots of two delay card draws (in contrast to adjacent stage hexes having no delay draw) because the chair/tables are separate entities while the stage is a continuous surface. Or to put it another way stage hexes are "obstacle hexes" while the later case involves moving between hexes that contain "moveable obstacles".

I also assume going between adjacent stage and floor hexes not using the stairs is just an ordinary movement, no GET UP or DROP needed.

Needless to say I wouldn't be holding up play in a face to face game with these questions! It's just I've got some spare time and find it interesting trying to work out how the rules work in the specific situation we find ourselves in.

Edit: Modified point 4 and added point 5
Edit: Modified points 1 and 2 to fix errors pointed out by Jim - thanks!
Last edited by davidk64 on 14 Apr 2020, 6:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post 11 Apr 2020, 4:26 am

Yes to all of the above except number 2.
Movement from C19 to C18/D18 is still on the stage so it's true that there is no delay draw, but it does not involve the steps. The move there would be to/from C19 and C20 using the stairs in C19*. Note that movement between C19 and C20 is actually two hexes as it passes through C19*. However, if aim is traced along that line, C19/C19* are considered one hex for range determination.