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Adjutant
 
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Post 07 Aug 2014, 8:16 pm

So in other words keep the 2020 map the same as far as its provinces and oceans and other novelties and so forth...just without North America split in half? That is an intriguing idea...though one of the designers of the game said it actually worked better splitting North America in half for some reason. Did you go through all the topics (including the YouTube demo) on the Command Post Games website you just gave me the link to?

When you say "do a card up" for each person you are talking about the "Supply Centers"? (Those are the large pieces of card stock each player has one which tracks his own resources and weapons, not the def. of SC we have here in Diplomacy.) I think that is what you meant by "commodity cards" right? Because there is also a deck of cards which has "companies" on each card and a few are dealt to each player like a hand of playing cards; these "companies" open up resources and so forth.

Well you sound more experienced than I do about putting games on the web. But if you would like a copy of the traditional Supremacy (1984+) rules, I have the "Version 3.0" rules (in other words, the 1992 printing of the 1984 game rules...I do not think they made any fundamental changes between the three versions they came out with between 1984 and 1992.) So I'll attach them to this post. It's a Word file.

The fly in the ointment would be, as I said, the rules for 2020 are not posted on BGG or on the Command Post Games website. To buy the rights for a "print and play" version of the game, it's $45. (I think pre-ordering a boxed version is something like $150 they said...a little rich for my blood and probably it saves them overhead to do it this way...therefore a pretty good business model IMHO). When Valley Games of Canada came out with their edition of The Republic of Rome they were kind enough to post their rules on BGG...but CPG has not done the same thing for S-2020.

So here are the rules for S-1984 (1992 "version 3.0" box). I should probably receive the game tomorrow, earlier than expected, according to the tracking info.

This at least will give you a handle on the game, and bring us closer to figuring out, how we want to do this.

Crap they won't let me upload it it is actually Rich Text Format or something absurd like that. Here is the link to the zip file it comes out of on BGG:

http://boardgamegeek.com/filepage/7598/supremacy3zip
Last edited by JimHackerMP on 08 Aug 2014, 1:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Adjutant
 
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Post 08 Aug 2014, 1:55 pm

They just delivered my copy of Supremacy this morning. Pretty cool! I wish I had held out for the 2020, but I actually hadn't gone over it completely until after bidding/buying the 1992 copy. :frown:

However if I do end up buying 2020 via "print & play", I will at least not lack pieces for ships, armies, mushroom clouds etc.

Even when I play games online, I tend to like to keep them set up on the dining room table, duplicate of the picture online someone is GM ing...just because I like to use them to "plan" my next move, etc.

Do you really think you could reproduce the 2020 map, with or without split North America? I'm game either which way if you can manage to do it...
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Adjutant
 
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Post 09 Aug 2014, 11:43 pm

If you like Tom, I can go ahead and buy a "print and play" edition of 2020...I can use the components of the 1992 edition I just received. Looks like it takes some legerdemain to put together though...but I think I can manage it.

Unfortunately I just realized there's a bit of a holdup with the money I am supposed to be getting so I'll have to wait a while before I can get the map myself. :frown:
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Post 11 Aug 2014, 8:41 am

I honestly have no freaking idea what you are talking about. Remember, I do not own the game and have never played. I looked at the box once a dozen or more years ago!
I saw a map that I linked to, on that it had what they called commodity cards that tracked different things. If all this stuff is already on the website you spoke of, no problem. But if you were doing this 100% by hand online (as I had done for Kingmaker) then I could copy the map, could copy that commodity tracking card, could design units to cut and paste easily onto the map, I could come up with each corporation card if you wanted. I would simply give you all the "pieces" that you would edit turn by turn and post online. Very very tedious (or it CAN be depending on what needs to be done)

Let's see if I remember to do this tonight
I can post what i did for the Kingmaker game. Different game, different in every way! But it would be similar to the map, the cards, the units, etc.
Maybe that will give you an idea of what I was talking about, but if the gaming website does this for you, no need!
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Adjutant
 
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Post 12 Aug 2014, 5:24 pm

Oh, ok sorry Tom. I tend to go off on a tangent occasionally. Maybe I wasn't totally clear on what you were saying.

Hmm that sounds really neat, I never thought of doing it like that....yes, the commodity cards (the big ones that track the stuff, right?) could be reproduced. A map could certainly be made I'm sure, and pieces I think are just armies and navies (not too dissimilar from Risk or Diplomacy). The only problem is the "company cards" you mentioned, well, they only show three or four of them face up on that photo online. Sure if you'd like to show me what you did for Kingmaker, I'd like to see that.
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Post 14 Aug 2014, 11:00 am

let's see if this file will load here...
again, this is not the same game but only gives an idea from another game (Kingmaker) on this sample you see the basic game board on the left and the cards on the right
king_maker_map.png
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Adjutant
 
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Post 15 Aug 2014, 4:54 pm

Holy sh@@ dude! That's a lot of effort put into that!
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Post 15 Aug 2014, 6:54 pm

I played in that demo - it was a thing of beauty!
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Adjutant
 
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Post 15 Aug 2014, 8:02 pm

Absolutely immaculate!
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Post 18 Aug 2014, 6:35 am

Thanks!
It isn't THAT difficult and is kind of fun when it all comes together.

IF (mind you it's a big IF) you wanted me to do this (and there may be no need if this is already available online) what I would do is take one of those maps already done and simply alter it to fit our needs. I could take it and re-orient it so it was not Euro-centric (if you wanted that game version).

If you wanted the game version that already has the existing map, I would use that as a base with very few alterations. I could add the supply counters for each player as well as design all the cards.

The way I would see this playing out (and I have not played the game so I may be very very off on this!).
The person running the game would use this base map and alter it turn by turn by turn.
After each move, he adds the unit placement (similar to a Dip game) and he could track the commodity information and cut and paste any cards to each player. I would assume each player would have a different portion around the map board devoted to himself? (on the right side you have player A's information, to the bottom is player B, etc).

Let me know if you need anything like this done, it's easy enough based on what I have already found.
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Post 18 Aug 2014, 1:24 pm

My thinking...
Image
We could do-up a nice map board, similar to the one posted earlier.
Make some unit icons similar (if not exact to) the ones we use for Diplomacy, something in a nice and easy rectangle shape makes it real easy to cut and paste.
Add the counter chart around the board, again very similar to the standard Dip map board where it at least shows where each power is normally seated. These cards could be right alongside the charts as well. If they are not seen by others (I have no clue) then we have no need for such cards, you could simply indicate to each player what they drew. All could be right there out in the open and relatively easy to chart turn by turn via cut and paste.


...make sense?
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Adjutant
 
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Post 20 Aug 2014, 3:54 pm

Sorry it's taken me a while to get back to you Tom. Sounds good so far. I have a couple of suggestions but I'll try to get them to you in short order, k?
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Adjutant
 
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Post 21 Aug 2014, 5:27 am

as far as the supply centers for tracking each player's resources and cash, we could use a simple spreadsheet. I've included one in this post to give you an idea. It could be as simple as this.

Note, the players' names I used are just for kicks. And none of the info is kept secret; players can see the other players' supply centers, and the pile of cash sitting in front of them. As I have it, it shows the starting positions for all the resources. (No l-stars, nukes, loans, and only three of each resource.)

A "supply center" is just the card that you use markers on to keep track of your L-stars, Nukes, minerals, oil, grain and bank loans. We could just list the numbers of the supplies as on this spreadsheet, including the money.

Damn it, it's not letting me attach it. Let me email it to you or something?
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Adjutant
 
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Post 21 Aug 2014, 10:20 pm

Tom I can email you my spreadsheet design that will take the place of the supply center cards (the cards with the black discs on them to keep track of strategic weapons, resources and bank loans). It's actually pretty clever. The supply centers have six rows to track up to twelve of each of everything I have color coded (as well as the bank loans...what's actually on the S.C. cards I put in bold face).

to explain:

There is a separate line at the bottom on the actual supply center cards detailing the amount of interest owed on loans. They must be borrowed in $1 billion increments, but the interest, which is detailed below the principal amount, is not a regular percentage. It increases wildly (and ridiculously) after four billions. So I've shown the number of billions of dollars borrowed from the bank as a regular number (not an amount of money).

Under the six rows on the supply centers (L-Stars, Nukes, Mineral, Oil, Grain, Loans) I have put the number of open resource companies, number of armies you have on the board, number of navies you have on the board. Then below that is a calculated amount that can be changed and will auto-sum itself. See, every Stage 1 of each turn, the player pays from his cash, the amount of interest owed on the loans, $50 million salaries per company, $10 million salaries per army or navy, and then the result at the bottom line. Enter any payment as a negative number, and it will automatically show in parenthesis, and the Autosum at the bottom (in other words, the amount of cash left after paying interest and salaries) will only be in parenthesis if the result is negative (not likely to happen too soon!) I could even make it red, instead of parenthesis (the ( ) around a number I think accountants do that to show negative numbers....)

The spreadsheet shows the way the game is set up at the beginning: 3 of each resource, no strategic weapons, no navies, only 1 army per home territory, and no loans yet. (As per the discrepancy in the number of armies, and the salaries owed on them, it is because the USSR has 6 home provinces, Europe and China have 5 each, and the USA, Africa and South America have 4 each.

So every time the amount of cash on hand changes, you could edit "CASH BEFORE ST. 1" and the number for the total after the beginning of the next turn would be already calculated. Just make sure that interest owed, company salaries owed and military salaries owed are entered with a negative sign before the number, so they'll automatically be put in ( ) to show minus. Understood? This way, everyone know how much cash on hand he has, and how much he will have left after the Stage 1 payment of salaries and interest. However, the amount of interest owed, and salaries, do not automatically recalculate when you change the number above...I have no idea how the hell to do that....!!!)

Let me know if you understand what i am talking about after you see the spreadsheet. email me at c b i s a s k y at g m a i l dot c o m. (no spaces, just done to deter spammers).
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Adjutant
 
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Post 21 Aug 2014, 11:39 pm

I have another spreadsheet that may be useful.

There are three ways to win, Supremacy (with an actual "winner" who dominates the others), Coup Final (nuclear winter, all lose) and by Detente (game ends at a prearranged time, and you add up the most money value of all players).

I have made a simple, easy "Detente Spreadsheet" that calculates the values of all hardware, cash and resources, then subtracts the loans. The only problem is setting up the formula cells right: the value of all the resources left on your supply center (mineral, oil, grain) at present Market value. Not sure how I could make the spreadsheet able to change those values. And I'm not great with these, how to copy one row into all the others is a bit complicated...but I'll eventually figure it out.

We could make a game end after 6 or 7 turns, at the end of Stage 7, or something...?

Hit me up and I'll mail you the "detente spreadsheet" as well.