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Post 04 Sep 2015, 11:19 pm

um....should we get one of those?
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Post 05 Sep 2015, 3:43 am

we had one, OTTO.
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Post 05 Sep 2015, 3:49 am

OTTO was a disaster. After it was introduced the number of forum based games fell off a cliff and never recovered. We had a nice little niche here which the players enjoyed, but by trying to compete with the bigger automated sites we lost what made this place special in the first place.
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Post 05 Sep 2015, 8:12 pm

Sassenach wrote:OTTO was a disaster. After it was introduced the number of forum based games fell off a cliff and never recovered. We had a nice little niche here which the players enjoyed, but by trying to compete with the bigger automated sites we lost what made this place special in the first place.


Correct me if I'm wrong - I believe Chad actively discouraged GM-based games in favor of Otto. This was the same time, wasn't it, when he revised the look of the site to more or less what we have now, though Brad (edited: corrected attribution) has tried to lighten it up a bit. Unfortunately for Otto, it was never fully implemented in the same way that other sites based on the same software were. For example, it did not have all of the variants, though it did have unresolved bugs. It also was never really integrated into the regular Redscape web site, which was additionally sad. But yes, that was when the mass exodus really began to take place. Well, it was Chad's site to do with as he pleased, of course. I don't know if he talked it over with any of the regular GMs before doing this, or just sprung it on everybody as a surprise. It sure was.
Last edited by georgeatkins on 06 Sep 2015, 10:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post 06 Sep 2015, 9:23 am

Hmmm...sounds like we need some sort of Redscape...revival?
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Post 06 Sep 2015, 10:20 am

JimHackerMP wrote:Hmmm...sounds like we need some sort of Redscape...revival?


See the main screen, General Topics: Redscape Resurraction forum for our most recent more-or-less ongoing attempts. Frankly, I for one gladly accept any input and actions you can perform. We love to have new blood like you, Colin, and if you have ideas how we can get more people interested in GM-based games, that's fine.

OR... ways this site can adapt to make it popular and inviting. This site has never been JUST Diplomacy, for example. We've hosted lots of different types of games and continue to do so. I'm sure that Brad and Neal and everybody else welcomes anybody who wants to start running different games, though I'm guessing that certain types of game would probably not fit our profile (e.g. "dungeon", "magic", and games of that ilk). Then again, who am I to say? I am not a leader or GM on this site. I don't run the servers. I'm just a parasitic player. I suppose if the site evolves into something completely different, that is the way things go.

But I hope that Diplomacy always remains a core component of this site, no matter which way it ultimately moves. One thing that I think we can really use here is a decent-enough PhP programmer who can volunteer some time to help make several changes the owners and players would like to see done (subject to Brad and Neal's approval, of course). I'm sure the regular players here would help chip in with some $ to help pay a programmer. All of my experience is in the visual basic arena, so I'm no help at all with PhP.

So, what are your thoughts, Colin?

George
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Post 06 Sep 2015, 10:53 am

From your complaints about OTTO it sounds as if human GM-ing was our "trump card". Do you agree? If so I'd be happy to help out as a GM, as long as i don't have more than a couple of games going on at the same time and I can be instructed how to do the maps and stuff. I have three DIPLOMACY sets so I can set em out on the dining room table and work the moves out. But I don't know 100% of the rules because I've already relied on the GM to work out the moves and so forth in any game I've been in. That is essentially how I have learned.

At one point it actually said "Deluxe Diplomacy Online". Perhaps we should go back to that?

I don't want this site to die. I've spent far too much time on debating people in the political forums and not enough time playing DIPLOMACY!!!!
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Post 06 Sep 2015, 12:10 pm

JimHackerMP wrote:From your complaints about OTTO it sounds as if human GM-ing was our "trump card". Do you agree? If so I'd be happy to help out as a GM, as long as i don't have more than a couple of games going on at the same time and I can be instructed how to do the maps and stuff. I have three DIPLOMACY sets so I can set em out on the dining room table and work the moves out. But I don't know 100% of the rules because I've already relied on the GM to work out the moves and so forth in any game I've been in. That is essentially how I have learned.

At one point it actually said "Deluxe Diplomacy Online". Perhaps we should go back to that?

I don't want this site to die. I've spent far too much time on debating people in the political forums and not enough time playing DIPLOMACY!!!!


Thanks, Colin. I think we have enough GMs if we need them. What we really need are more players on the site! Most of the people you have been bantering with on the forum are long-time Dip players, most of whom have GM experience and will pitch in when needed. And we also need some site redesign work to make the place a bit more inviting and friendly (perhaps), which is where the programmer comes in. If you have seen old versions of the site on the Internet Wayback site, that was a different bulletin board system and I don't think changing systems is anywhere in the cards at this point. But we can certainly change its look and feel and mess around with available features.
george
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Post 09 Sep 2015, 10:12 pm

Perhaps, as in politics and cooking/chef-ing, presentation will win the day? You said something about the "look and feel" of the site.

Maybe that will help attract new players?

I was thinking something using the "diplomacy flags" around the edges or something? Maybe the edges should look like the map, or one of the American editions' conference maps?

I think something that, while it will not exactly hide it, will certainly "guide" players toward the Diplomacy games, rather than anything else (like the political forums, etc.) Maybe even a partial change of name, perhaps? I mean does the name "Redscape" really conjure up images of Diplomacy in peoples' minds?
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Post 10 Sep 2015, 5:21 am

Another thing: if you want more players to come, open up some games! You said there were enough GMs to go around, correct?

Maybe advertise on BGG for new players?

And as far as the name, how about "Red Baron"? We could, of course, title it as being "formerly known as 'Redscape'".
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Post 10 Sep 2015, 5:25 am

Colin,

Hiring someone to do anything to this site costs money. Revenue is scarce. The optimal solution is to find someone who can program on Php, has an interest in our site, and will do it for free. Chad was such a programmer but, alas, Chad is gone.

The problem with running games is not finding GM's. It's getting players to come here and play. Folks will come for specialty games like NWO but not for standard. Well, except for tourneys. If Redscape Games starts back up again, I expect there will be plenty of volunteer GM's for the games.

Last time I started a standard game, it took four months to fill. Not again.
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Post 10 Sep 2015, 5:40 am

SLOTerp wrote:Last time I started a standard game, it took four months to fill. Not again.


It took 3 weeks to fill the Aberration game we just kicked off, but I specifically timed the recruiting drive to follow up on the end of NWO. But then again, it is also a variant.
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Post 18 Sep 2015, 4:50 pm

Hiring someone to do anything to this site costs money. Revenue is scarce. The optimal solution is to find someone who can program on Php, has an interest in our site, and will do it for free.


But you make it sound so easy. :razz: Should we pass around the virtual offering plate (whatever it's called in Church; forgive me for mixing computers, money and religion) and see how much we can scrape up among us for an interested programmer? (Whether he's internal or an outsider unfortunate enough to have not yet accepted Redscape as his One, True Diplomacy Site...)

If I can get back to college in the future [knocking on wood] and get certification in some sort of computer programming field, then I'd be happy to volunteer as such. But that's going to be a year or two down the road, possibly greater.

Chad was such a programmer but, alas, Chad is gone.


Blasphemy! Blasphemy! It's "the Ch_D"!

I've always been a proponent of "vanilla" Diplomacy. Variants never interested me much; in my opinion it's innovation on the teachings of the Prophet, St. Allan. (OK, enough religious references for now :laugh: )

I always thought it would look neat to have a Diplomacy site that actually showed some Diplomacy...stuff (the headings, pictures of boards, etc.)

As I said above, in response to your comment about a mass exodus (oops broke my promise about religious references) following the inclusion of a non-human adjudication program on Redscape; it sounds to me as if our adjudication by human GMs was/is our "trump card". Something special about playing Diplomacy with an 8th human being instead of 7 humans and a computer.

The problem with running games is not finding GM's. It's getting players to come here and play.


Things like this seem to work via the network effect. Get a few people you know who get a few people they know to sign up, but we'll have to have some games already in the bull pen waiting to be filled up, perhaps a bunch of Standard games and a few Variants to add some spice. But if we don't have the games waiting to fill up those people will quickly lose interest waiting for the darn games to start and then look elsewhere.
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Post 19 Sep 2015, 8:48 am

JimHackerMP wrote:But you make it sound so easy. :razz: Should we pass around the virtual offering plate (whatever it's called in Church; forgive me for mixing computers, money and religion) and see how much we can scrape up among us for an interested programmer?

You're always welcome to donate via Paypal: redscapefund <at> gmail <dot> com

The work done a few years ago cost in the neighborhood of $500 (Brad and/or Neal can correct me on this).

If I can get back to college in the future [knocking on wood] and get certification in some sort of computer programming field, then I'd be happy to volunteer as such. But that's going to be a year or two down the road, possibly greater.

We've got time. :smile:

...it sounds to me as if our adjudication by human GMs was/is our "trump card". Something special about playing Diplomacy with an 8th human being instead of 7 humans and a computer.

Indeed. It's hard to compete against 24 hour turn-arounds, though. Immediate satisfaction and quantity trumps quality, to both our detriment and the game in general.

Things like this seem to work via the network effect. Get a few people you know who get a few people they know to sign up, but we'll have to have some games already in the bull pen waiting to be filled up, perhaps a bunch of Standard games and a few Variants to add some spice. But if we don't have the games waiting to fill up those people will quickly lose interest waiting for the darn games to start and then look elsewhere.

I appreciate your optimism. Start the ball rolling and offer to GM a game. :grin:
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Post 20 Sep 2015, 10:51 pm

Ha, I did.

Someone said we have enough GMs. I do not know all the ins-and-outs of the rules but I'd be willing to learn of course. Mostly minutiae of course.

Sounds like to revamp the website to make it look more Diplomacy-ish would cost a lot more than $500?

[edit] Colin, I'm sorry if I deleted anything you wrote. I was trying to quote you and I must've hit 'edit' instead.